Transcript
[0:02] Question: Why do you write?Gilbert: Why do
I write?
[0:11] I write for several reasons.
[0:13] Probably foremost of which is it’s the only
thing I can do, to be honest.
[0:18] I say that because I have friends who, I believe,
are cursed by being multitalented.
[0:23] And I do feel like that is a curse.
[0:25] Or if you’re not cursed by being multitalented,
I know people who are cursed by having many
[0:29] different interests so their attention is
kind of fragmented across many fields.
[0:36] And I think it’s difficult when you’re
like that, unless you’re truly a Renaissance
[0:39] person and you can kind of handle all of it
at once.
[0:41] I think it’s hard to sort of find your way
and…
[0:45] You know, I just never was interested in anything
else.
[0:49] I was never particularly good at anything
else.
[0:51] There was…
[0:52] There’s no anything else that I wanted or
craved or loved as much as this work.
[0:57] So in that one way, I would say that my life
has been phenomenally simple.
[1:02] I’ve managed to complicate my life in all
sorts of other ways.
[1:06] But just this was a kind of…
[1:08] I don’t know.
[1:09] I think in everybody’s life, there’s one
thing that you get handed as a simple gift.
[1:14] And for me, it was this whole idea of writing.
[1:17] Question: What is your creative process?Gilbert:
I follow my curiosity.
[1:21] I suppose that’s where most people’s creative
processes begin, unless they’re sort of
[1:28] more analytical and intellectual about it
and they actually set out to conquer, understand
[1:33] something which isn’t necessarily how I
work.
[1:36] I always feel like it’s a tap on the shoulder
that begins it, you know.
[1:39] And it’s not necessarily a passionate response
at the beginning, it’s…
[1:43] Curiosity is the best word for it because
you feel this little tap and then it just
[1:48] pulls your attention for a minute and you
just think, that’s funny, why did I get
[1:51] that response, why am I interested in lobster
fishermen, you know, why do I… what is that
[1:56] tweak something in me.
[1:57] And then, you sort of sniff it out and…
[1:59] And for me…
[2:01] I’m not a particularly imaginative person.
[2:04] I have a sister, Catherine Murdock, who’s
also a writer, and she’s really a fabulist.
[2:08] Even when we were growing up, she was kind
of like Scheherazade.
[2:10] You know, she can just invent things and make-up
worlds.
[2:14] And I’ve never been that kind of person.
[2:16] My interest is much more about reflecting
on the world as it is.
[2:21] Even when I was writing fiction, I felt like
I had to kind of go to the places that I was
[2:25] writing about and roll around in them for
awhile and, you know, just really commune
[2:29] with the people there and, like, taste the
soil, you know, and learn about it.
[2:33] And so, my creative process is really…
[2:34] It’s really involving.
[2:35] You know, it’s really about a kind of all
over sensory experience.
[2:41] And I can’t begin to write something until
I feel like I’ve become a bit of an expert
[2:46] on it.
[2:47] So the writing comes last.
[2:49] And it’s all this buildup, all this research,
all this thinking, all this contemplation,
[2:53] all this experimentation.
[2:54] And then, once I’ve got this collective
of ideas and information and notes, I can
[2:59] sit down…
[3:00] And, at that point, it starts to feel like
I’m an archeologist and that underneath
[3:05] all those notes, there’s an ancient city
and I just have to kind of dust it and find
[3:09] it and piece it together and put the pieces
of pottery and shards… kind of recreated
[3:13] it in some strange and a kind of indescribable
way.
[3:19] Question: How do you stimulate creativity?Gilbert:
Well, I’m a big conversationalist so I listen.
[3:27] And, you know, I’m always on guard.
[3:29] I had a friend who used to say that I use…
[3:32] let’s gets our magazine stories by going
to a bar and talking to somebody, you know,
[3:36] and just hearing something that sticks out,
you know, as interesting.
[3:40] So there’s a lot of talking involved in
my work.
[3:42] And I don’t think that’s necessarily all
that common for writers.
[3:47] I think a lot of people become writers specifically
because they can’t abide that and they don’t
[3:53] want to be, you know, in the mix and in the
conversation and they would prefer to be…
[3:57] having a sort of hidden dialogue, in silence.
[4:00] I’m not like that.
[4:02] So definitely, I feel like I have to be engaged
wherever I am with the people who are around
[4:08] me.
[4:09] That really helps a lot.
[4:10] And then…
[4:11] You know, I…
[4:12] I’m just very…
[4:13] It’s weird because in the rest of my life,
I’m not this way but when it comes to writing,
[4:16] I’m very disciplined.
[4:19] I grew up in a farm and I was the most useless
person on that farm.
[4:23] But somehow, I kind of took all those lessons
about doing your chores and being responsible
[4:30] and I apply them to this work.
[4:33] And so, I was really bad at taking care of
the chickens and the garden but somehow, it’s
[4:37] the same muscles or something that I use.
[4:40] And when I’m working, I’m pretty diligent
about kind of clearing out my life and setting
[4:45] aside huge periods of time, going to bed early,
getting up at 4:30, 5:00 in the morning, working
[4:52] in this very rigorous kind of hour by hour
disciplined way.
[4:57] And I can’t focus or cope without that so
I can’t write in chaos.
[5:02] So there’s a certain amount of… certain
amount of order that I have to keep in my
[5:06] life in order to be able to work.
[5:10] Question: Is physical health important to
your process?Gilbert: It’s funny.
[5:12] Actually, my meditation practice completely,
what there is of it, completely drops away
[5:17] when I’m working.
[5:18] I think it’s because the work isn’t meditation
itself and also because there is absolutely
[5:24] no way I would be able to quiet my mind when
I’m in the process of creating…
[5:28] And I wouldn’t want to.
[5:30] You know, I kind of need to keep it, like,
keep those ovens kind of fired up.
[5:33] I don’t really want them to come down to
a certain level of calmness.
[5:38] Although it is calming, oddly, because it’s
so, I don’t know, such an enormous sense
[5:44] of focus, which is actually, of course, what
meditation is.
[5:46] So instead of sitting in silence and staring
at a candle, I’m sort of sitting in silence
[5:50] and staring at a page full of words and just
trying to kind of drive my attention to solving
[5:56] whatever the problem is.
[5:59] And physically, that all falls away when I’m
working too.
[6:02] I just… everything kind of falls away when
I’m working.
[6:06] And just part of the reason that I found over
the years that when it comes time to actually
[6:10] write a book, it’s really kind of better
if I go away.
[6:13] And as much as the beginning of my creative
process, is so much about being around people
[6:18] and ideas and conversation.
[6:21] Once I’m actually working, I really sort
of need to be in a cave by myself, not showering
[6:28] and not talking to anybody and not going to
yoga class and, you know, any sort of engagement
[6:35] becomes a really big distraction at that point.Question:
How important are physical surroundings?Gilbert:
[6:40] I think the physical surrounding affect enormously
where you are and what you’re writing about.
[6:44] I mean, for so much of my life, I actually
went and kind of manipulated myself into particular
[6:50] physical surroundings.
[6:51] And certainly the book “Eat, Pray, Love”
is all about what these 3 countries, Italy,
[6:56] India, and Indonesia bring forth from me,
you know.
[7:00] And that’s why the 3 sections of the book
are so different because they were composed
[7:04] in these… in these different places.
[7:06] But…
[7:07] I don’t know.
[7:08] I’m changing about that now so I’m not
sure…
[7:09] I’m not sure anymore of…
[7:11] Really, my life is quite down a lot and now
I live in New Jersey so God knows what that’s
[7:18] going to bring.
[7:19] But it’s…
[7:20] I don’t know.
[7:21] Now, I’m feeling a different impulse, which
is about community and being in this small
[7:28] town and having certain daily rituals and
having a garden and neighbors and pets.
[7:34] And all that stuff kind of matters to me in
a really serious way now, which makes me think
[7:38] that my work is probably going to change as
a result or maybe this is the beginning of
[7:42] a new topic of discussion in my mind.
[7:45] Question: Is spiritual enlightenment a privilege?Gilbert:
Well…
[7:49] I mean, I think if spiritual enlightenment
was also open to the rich, the rich would
[7:53] be, hopefully, a lot better people than they
are so I don’t think they’re necessarily
[7:58] linked.
[7:59] But I think…
[8:01] You know, I have people ask me, a lot of the
time, questions along the lines of, you know,
[8:06] how can I possibly…
[8:08] I can’t afford to do what you did, I can’t
afford to go and take a year off from my work
[8:12] for my family, for my obligations from the
contracts, the social contracts that I have
[8:16] with people or the illness that I’m taking
care of or, you know, whatever the things
[8:20] are that hold people into the places where
they’re staying, you know.
[8:25] And I can’t afford to do that in anyway,
in any definition of the word afford, you
[8:30] know, so how can I have the experiences that
you had.
[8:33] And I think it will be insulting for me to
walk around, telling people that they could
[8:38] do that, you know.
[8:40] Because the reality is that even in my life,
which has been a life that’s…
[8:44] I got a lot of freedom, I don’t have children,
I’ve been lucky enough to have a career
[8:48] that facilitates travel, you know, healthy.
[8:52] Even in my life, there was only one moment
when I could’ve done that and it was that
[8:55] year.
[8:56] I couldn’t do it now, you know.
[8:57] I’m way too entrenched in the lives of people
around me to do it again and… you know.
[9:04] And I have one of the freest schedules of
anybody on earth, you know.
[9:08] So it’s…
[9:10] And I also don’t think everybody should
do that, you know.
[9:14] I have a friend…
[9:16] One of my favorite moments before I left on
this trip, this editor, friend of mine, in
[9:20] New York said to me, “Wow.
[9:21] You’re going to an ashram performance to
meditate.”
[9:24] There’s a part of me that’s so wishes
that I wanted to do that but I really, really
[9:28] have no desire for it whatsoever.
[9:30] You know, he’s going to find his way in
a different path.
[9:32] But I do think there are people who long for
that.
[9:36] And all I can think of is that, you know,
if the only people who had spiritual enlightenment
[9:42] available to them are those who can afford
a plane ticket to India, the world will be
[9:45] an even more unfair place than it already
is.
[9:49] And the example that I always think of is
this friend of mine from high school, actually
[9:54] he was my prom date, who is in prison now
as my mom predicted at the time.
[10:00] But anyway, he’s having the spiritual experience
of a lifetime because he’s using that time
[10:06] to focus on meditation and contemplation and
self-transformation.
[10:11] And he’s in an eight-by-eight foot room
where every minute of his day is sort of organized
[10:17] by other people.
[10:18] I would argue that it’s probably easier
to find time to meditate in prison than it
[10:21] is if you have 2 little kids at home, you
know, and, also, sort of holding down a job
[10:26] and struggling with a lot of other issues.
[10:29] But I have to believe because it would work
to much my understanding of humanity that
[10:35] questions of divinity are available to anybody
and that the entrance to those questions are
[10:39] everywhere.
[10:40] And certainly, evidence shows that.
[10:43] You know, people have transcended religious
experiences in refugee camps.
[10:47] They have them in traffic jams.
[10:49] They have them during war.
[10:50] They have them at their offices.
[10:52] You know, these invitations arrive in people’s
lives wherever they are.
[10:57] And I was lucky enough, for a lot of reasons,
to be able to carve out this huge period of
[11:05] time to go to this very special place and
do this work in a really organized way.
[11:11] But my spiritual practice is today.
[11:13] You know, my life in New Jersey are nothing
compared to a lot of people I knew who have
[11:18] much busier lives than me, who insist on making
time for this.
[11:21] You know, they wake up at 4:00 in the morning
and they hold that time sacred.
[11:25] And they work at it and they meditate and
they didn’t have any of the advantages that
[11:28] I have.
[11:29] And they are way, way, way closer to the destination
that I was seeking, merely on the count of
[11:34] the fact that they’re demanding it whether
they live in Queens or, you know, Indiana.Question:
[11:38] Why do you think Eat, Pray, Love was so popular?Gilbert:
I don’t know.
[11:44] I don’t know why “Eat, Pray, Love” has
had the impact that it’s had.
[11:51] I also don’t know…
[11:52] I mean, I’ve written books before this,
you know, and they sold upwards of dozens
[11:59] of copies each, you know.
[12:01] I don’t know how that happened.
[12:03] If I knew how that happened, I would do it
again or I would’ve been doing it all along,
[12:08] you know.
[12:09] It’s…
[12:10] There’s a…
[12:11] There’s a certain randomness in the way
that my questions, for some reason, about
[12:17] my life intersected… dovetailed with questions
that apparently a lot of other people, women
[12:24] in particular, at this moment in history were
asking about their lives.
[12:27] One possible answer is…
[12:28] I mean, I do feel like I’m a pretty representative
example of my culture, you know.
[12:34] I’m pretty representative 21st century,
middle-aged, American woman in the way that
[12:41] I’ve been educated in the way that… you
know, the things that I’ve been led to believe
[12:47] that my life should feel like and the disappointments
that I experience when my life doesn’t feel
[12:52] like that, the particular kinds of questions
that haunt me at the things that I want and
[12:59] wonder about.
[13:00] You know, I don’t think I have any particularly
special…
[13:04] I think I feel that stuff the same way that
certainly everybody I know feels those things,
[13:10] you know.
[13:11] And, again, pointing to the question of privilege
because of the fact that I’m a writer, I
[13:17] have… and because of the fact that I’ve
been able to build a career as a writer and
[13:21] sort of organize my time in a certain way,
I have access to a lot more time than other
[13:26] people might have to think about those things.
[13:29] I was able to say, I’m going to take one
entire year and do literally nothing every
[13:34] minute of the day except think about all these
questions.
[13:36] I remember, before I left on the trip, this
friend of mine who’s a mother of two, she’s
[13:41] a doctor.
[13:42] She’s, you know, at home right now with
her kids but certainly has this ferociously
[13:45] intelligent mind.
[13:46] You know, she just sat me down and said, “Take
us with you,” you know, “All of us who
[13:50] are asking these same things but are staying
here, you know, with our families, with our
[13:54] kids, with our work.
[13:55] You know, take us with you and ask the questions
that we would ask and do the work that we
[13:59] would want to do if we could,” you know.
[14:01] So, I think, I felt a great obligation to
do that while I was traveling in that way,
[14:05] didn’t forget that.
[14:06] And I would ask myself, what would Suzanne,
Kat want to know if they were here and sort
[14:13] of feel that and try to answer those questions
on the page.
[14:18] And I wrote the book very directly as a letter
to one specific person.
[14:22] I wrote the book to my friend Darcey Steinke,
who’s a wonderful novelist and a memoirist
[14:27] and who’s also in a very different sort
of spiritual path… a spiritual path but
[14:31] a different one for me.
[14:33] She’s a student of Christianity but is also
this hipster who lives in Brooklyn, single
[14:39] mom.
[14:41] And we’ve had a long ranging conversation
over the years about marriage, about divinity,
[14:45] about autonomy, about all these questions
that, you know, are foremost in our minds.
[14:50] And this book became a kind of extended letter
to her.
[14:53] And the one thing that I’ve heard people
to say when they read the book or when they
[14:58] respond to it in this way, and certainly not
everybody has responded to it positively by
[15:02] the way, you know, but the people who do say,
I feel as though we were having a conversation
[15:07] and I feel like you were talking directly
to me.
[15:10] Because in the sense, I was.
[15:12] I was talking directly to one person who is
also a very representative 21st century, American
[15:17] woman.
[15:18] And so, maybe that’s it, you know.
[15:21] Maybe it just feels like, you know, we’re
knee to knee with, like, a cup of coffee between
[15:26] us, trying to figure out this stuff together,
which, maybe, we need right now.
[15:33] Question: Is escapism part of the book’s
appeal?Gilbert: Well, I think that going and
[15:38] traveling very literally to very literal places
is about as much the opposite of, like, the
[15:46] Facebook, blogosphere, you know, avatarist
world that so many people live in or at least
[15:53] that I hear so many people live in.
[15:55] I’m not sure whether people live in that
world quite as much as commentators like to
[16:00] imagine that they do.
[16:02] You know, I still feel like people have a
lot of interpersonal contact and communication
[16:08] with each other in really real ways.
[16:09] Although, there’s nothing like, actually,
going to Naples and eating a pizza, you know,
[16:15] to make you feel like you’re really in a
place doing that thing.
[16:18] But I don’t think…
[16:19] I’m not sure that the dream of pilgrimage
is new, you know.
[16:24] I think it’s hardwired into us in some way.
[16:28] The yearning to step aside from the fold and
the [clan] and go off into the desert, the
[16:36] mountain, the cave, the holy city, you know,
whatever… you know, whatever the sort of
[16:41] dream of distances.
[16:43] That’s something that is part of every single
human society on earth.
[16:50] And, I think, the way I did it was just a
way that was reflective of, you know, the
[16:57] kind of person that I am and a kind of culture
that I grew up and the kind of stuff that
[17:00] I was yearning for and wanting.
[17:02] But…
[17:03] You know, I always find it really interesting.
[17:05] You know, you go back and you read these accounts
in Roman histories of people going to India,
[17:11] you know, like being sent to India from…
by Indian emperors… sorry, by Roman emperors,
[17:17] people being sent to India to specifically
find these yogis that everybody was talking
[17:23] about and see if they could get an audience
with them, see if they could study them.
[17:27] And then, they come back to Rome and they
would report.
[17:28] You know, there’re these guys who, you know,
go into these states where their heart stop
[17:32] beating and claim to, you know, understand
the makings of the world.
[17:38] And, you know, people were sort of discussing
that then and longing for that then.
[17:42] So…
[17:43] I just think the idea of going on a holy journey
is something that not all of us but, damn,
[17:50] a whole lot of us dream about, you know, at
some point.
[17:55] I just can’t tell you how many people have
sort of confess that to me as though it’s
[18:01] some dirty hidden secret when, in fact, I
think, it’s almost like a linkage of longing.Question:
[18:06] Is Eat, Pray, Love a self-help book?Gilbert:
Well, I…
[18:10] I’m not really insulted when people call
it a self-help book because I don’t know
[18:15] what else you would call a book about somebody
helping themselves.
[18:18] Although, I guess, a self-help book, by definition,
is a book that sort of teaches, like, intense…
[18:24] You know, its intention is to set out to sort
of create a path and say, these are the…
[18:28] you know, these are the steps that you have
to take.
[18:32] And certainly, I wouldn’t do that because
I don’t know what the steps are.
[18:38] But I definitely, you know, use the book as
a way to sort of salvage and rescue and recreate
[18:45] my own life, you know, by hand.
[18:48] It was kind of like a…
[18:49] It was kind of like a girl scout project,
you know.
[18:53] Like, there were… there were materials,
you know, like…
[18:55] With these materials in your own house, you
too can build a… you know, like that’s
[18:59] kind of the feeling that I wanted it to have,
you know, of a certain kind of self-resourcefulness.
[19:05] But, you know, I say that also with a grain
of salt because I think it’s important…
[19:12] You know, we kind of demean the therapeutic
abundance that’s going on in America right
[19:20] now.
[19:21] And I think we have to do that very carefully
because some of the stuff is really important.
[19:24] And so, that stuff really works.
[19:26] And if you go to cultures where people don’t
have access to those sorts of outlets, you
[19:31] can see how they might be served by them,
you know.
[19:34] And as much as we kind of criticize the Oprah-ness
of modern life, there’s something to be
[19:40] argued for it as well, you know.
[19:41] There’s a lot more communication today in
a really open way between men and women…
[19:46] within groups of men and women about what
they’re feeling, you know, and what they’re
[19:52] sad about.
[19:54] And that hasn’t always been the case.
[19:56] And it’s not the case in every culture on
earth.
[19:59] And when you go see cultures where people
are still really buttoned down, you can see
[20:03] where there’s a lot of pain that’s intrinsic
in that.
[20:06] And I, myself, as much as I like to call it
a sort of self-help book, you know, I didn’t
[20:12] set out on that journey until after I had
been through 2 years of therapy on the upper
[20:17] west side, you know.
[20:18] And 6 months to a year, I can’t remember
now, but, you know, a period of time of antidepressants
[20:24] that I was really ambivalent about but still
consider a bridge, a sort of necessary bridge,
[20:29] to get me to the last awful months of my divorce.
[20:32] I probably could’ve done it without it but
it made it a lot less anguish… you know,
[20:39] anguishing for me so… you know.
[20:42] But that too was, I guess, even so, seeking
out help from a professional… you know.
[20:48] I took…
[20:48] Look, I took whatever was available, you know,
religion, psychotherapy, friendship, companionship,
[20:56] exercise, drinking 8 glasses of water a day…
[20:59] Look, whatever was on hand, I was using it
because I was in a lot of trouble.
[21:03] And, you know, the last step of it was going
off on this journey.
[21:07] But if I…
[21:08] I certainly wouldn’t have been physically
or mentally able to do that even a year before
[21:12] because I was in such a bad place.
[21:13] So I would caution people against sort of
leaping off a cliff in some sort of grandiose
[21:20] gesture of self-reclamation if they’re not…
you know, if they’re not actually, somewhat,
[21:25] mentally or psychology stable enough to handle
it.
[21:28] Question: Are Americans suffering from an
over-abundance of spiritual practices?Gilbert:
[21:32] There is a danger, I think.
[21:33] Look, we’re a young country, you know.
[21:38] And the more you travel out of America, the
more you see that, right?
[21:42] There’re so much that’s great about youth.
[21:44] There’re so much that’s great about the
youngness of America.
[21:47] There’s a certain energy here.
[21:48] There’s a certain willingness to try stuff.
[21:51] There’s a certain ambition, an eagerness,
and excitement.
[21:55] I mean, I had friends during the Obama campaign
who called me from Europe and said, I cannot
[22:00] even imagine what it would feel like to actually
believe in things like hope, to believe in…
[22:08] to believe that a politician can change things,
to actually have…
[22:11] They were envious, you know, of this huge
enthusiasm that was sweeping across America.
[22:16] That was really real, you know, and really
passionate and really fresh in a way, you
[22:22] know.
[22:23] That doesn’t exist everywhere, you know.
[22:24] The downside of that youth and that enthusiasm
and that freshness is a certain shallowness,
[22:31] a certain inability to stick to, you know,
one path, a certain longing to drink out of
[22:37] every well.
[22:39] You know, certainly the new age movement has
a lot of that in there where you’re kind
[22:42] of like cherry picking… like, I want a dream
catcher and I want a crystal and I want something
[22:47] tantric and I want, you know, the chakras
and I also want to go to mass and I also…
[22:52] And…
[22:53] I’m not necessarily against that because
I think there’s…
[22:56] You know, I think, certainly the willingness
to experiment…
[23:00] There’s something very beautiful about that.
[23:03] And there’s something wonderful about a
culture that permits you to do that.
[23:05] That doesn’t say there is one church, there
is one belief, there is, you know, one dogma
[23:10] and everybody must march and lock step.
[23:13] But, you know, it does get… it does get
a little goofy.
[23:16] I’ve been guilty of it myself so I have
to say it with a measure of compassion and
[23:22] affection because, you know, I could easily
have been accused of every single piece of
[23:28] flakiness that I sometimes judge, you know,
when I see that out there.
[23:34] But its part of who we are.
[23:36] And consumerism and a profit margin is also
a part of who we are, you know.
[23:41] So you get things in America like competitive
yoga, which, you know, I still can never hear
[23:47] without laughing.
[23:48] Maybe the idea of going to a yoga competition
does seem like…
[23:52] Maybe the point is being somewhat missed.
[23:55] But…
[23:56] I don’t know, you know.
[23:58] I don’t know what experiences the people
in the yoga competition are having.
[24:02] I don’t know what they’re…
[24:03] You know, I don’t know enough about what
their internal world is.
[24:06] It could be just a big breakthrough for them,
winning first place in the meditation price.
[24:12] I don’t know but it’s… it’s…
[24:15] I don’t know.
[24:17] To me, I still feel like the benefits of that
kind of freedom, the benefits of the excitement
[24:22] that people in this country are willing to
feel about things outweigh the goofiness that,
[24:29] sometimes, a little too easy to be snide about.
[24:31] Question: What does spirituality mean to you?Gilbert:
Well…
[24:35] Look, something happened to me but even saying
that, kind of puts it in a little bit too
[24:41] passive of a voice, you know.
[24:42] I set out to…
[24:44] I set out looking for something very specific.
[24:47] And through a pretty rigorous search and a
pretty rigorous set of practices, I got that
[24:54] thing that I wanted, which to put it really
simply and perhaps oversimply is a certain
[25:01] calmness, you know.
[25:04] It’s…
[25:05] Life is an extremely agitating event, you
know.
[25:08] And I vibrate at a slightly higher frequency
than is necessarily healthy, you know, than
[25:13] I always have.
[25:14] I’ve always been kind of anxious.
[25:16] I’ve always been super motive.
[25:19] I feel things harder than is good for me.
[25:23] Indecision has been part of my life, you know.
[25:25] And I could see, after a certain age, how
that was destructive not only to myself but
[25:30] to people around me.
[25:31] And…
[25:32] You know, I just think you get to a point
where you don’t want to be in other people’s
[25:34] way.
[25:35] You know, you don’t want to be taking up…
[25:37] You don’t want to be taking up other people’s
space and energy to sort of take care of you.
[25:42] And I longed to be a different kind of person.
[25:45] You know, I longed to be just a little more
at ease, a little more relaxed, and a little
[25:51] more wise, you know, because it seems to me
that wisdom is the beginning of serenity,
[25:57] you know.
[25:59] And, you know, aside from people who are very
heavily medicated, the calmest people that
[26:03] I know tend to, also, be the wisest, who are
quickest, you know, or most instinctively,
[26:09] able to put things into perspective, that
takes away the urgency of the moment.
[26:14] And there’re practices that you can do to
get there, you know.
[26:17] And those practices, you know, as my friend
Richard from Texas always says, the shit works,
[26:21] you know, those practices work.
[26:23] And people do it in different ways and they
do it… they do it in different places.
[26:26] But I think that the end result and desire
was always the same, you want peace, you know,
[26:31] if not in the world, then, at least, within
your own mind.
[26:35] This is not to say that I glide to the world
now on a sort of cushion of serenity at all
[26:41] times because I am, you know, exactly as capable
of anybody else at experiencing road rage
[26:48] and sidewalk rage and customer service representative,
putting you on hold rage, and all the other
[26:54] sorts of rages and jealousies and frustrations
and self-pity.
[26:59] I mean, all these things are not foreign to
me, you know, but I’ve just…
[27:02] I don’t know.
[27:03] It’s like there’s an engine that works
within me, now, that much, much, much more
[27:09] efficiently processes all of that.
[27:12] And I…
[27:13] You know, I’m believing now that that’s
a direct result of the work that I did for
[27:18] a whole bunch of years, you know, trying to
get to that place.
[27:21] And when I find myself kind of spinning out
of orbit, you know, there’s like a tether,
[27:27] you know, that I braided, you know, myself
from my own beliefs and my own studies and
[27:36] this work, you know.
[27:37] And that tether sort of pulls me back and
reminds me, do you really want to go, you
[27:43] really want to make a big production out of
this, or would it be better for you and everybody
[27:47] around you if you just found a way to accept
what’s going on.
[27:52] And that’s just made life very much more
pleasant.
[27:56] And I feel like my…
[27:58] You know, if I can define my spiritual practice
today, it is the maintenance of that.
[28:02] It is doing whatever is necessary to keep
that healthy and to keep that system working.
[28:09] And you have to be a little bit nimble and
a little flexible to kind of figure out what
[28:13] each day requires in order to keep that going.
[28:16] Question: What practices help you maintain
spirituality?Gilber: I find, to be perfectly
[28:21] honest, a lot of it has to do with napping,
you know.
[28:24] I just think…
[28:25] You know, I’m alarmed by reports of how
little sleep Americans are getting anymore.
[28:31] You know, even in the last 10 years, people
are getting, on average, you know, an hour
[28:34] to 2 hours less sleep a day.
[28:36] It’s making people really frazzled and really
fragile and I just…
[28:40] I kind of feel like, you know, if there’s
a new religion that needs to be founded, it’s
[28:43] a religion about, like, naps.
[28:46] You know, something happens when you take
a nap.
[28:49] You go into another state.
[28:50] You know, your pulse goes down.
[28:52] Your blood pressure goes down.
[28:53] It’s a kind of meditation… kind of lose
meditation.
[28:57] And I do a lot of it.
[28:59] It seems to help, seems to make me more pleasant
for people around me.
[29:03] I would prescribe it to anybody.
[29:04] I think every nation that has any civility
incorporates napping into their day in a kind
[29:11] of official way.
[29:12] So…
[29:13] You know, rest, rest.
[29:14] I say no to a lot of things that’s become
a kind of active spiritual practice for me.
[29:19] I turned down a lot of things, not just professional
invitations but personal invitations and social
[29:24] invitations.
[29:26] I think saying no is something we’re really
bad at in this culture.
[29:30] I spent years not saying no to anything because
I was afraid that if I said no to people,
[29:35] they wouldn’t like me as much and they will
be disappointed.
[29:37] And I’ve learned in my old age that when
you say no to people, they don’t like you
[29:42] as much and they’re disappointed.
[29:43] Nonetheless, you know, there are times that
it has to be done in order to protect whatever
[29:49] small sanctity of serenity you have build
up in your life.
[29:53] It’s inhumane, the pace at which people
live in this society.
[29:57] And when I came back from traveling for “Eat,
Pray, Love”, I was truly sort of jaw droppingly
[30:03] shocked to see it a new… from fresh eyes
and to see the amount of stress and the amount
[30:09] of work that we have, somehow, decided is
normal.
[30:12] And it is so warped.
[30:15] And, you know, fear is that we’ve exported
that, you know, and we’re sort of exporting
[30:20] that idea all over the world all the time
and sort of spreading it like a virus.
[30:24] And it’s just…
[30:25] There is no…
[30:27] There is absolutely no way you can defend
it as healthy, normal, safe, or wise.
[30:32] And yet, it’s really hard to resist.
[30:34] And you have to push really hard against it,
you know.
[30:38] And I don’t always succeed.
[30:39] You know, I find myself at the end of my rope
all the time, I’m like, how did I end up…
[30:43] how did I end up with a 14-hour day today,
like… you know, how did I let that happen.
[30:50] And so, there’s a sort of vigilance against
that that I would really strongly argue as
[30:55] part of, like, the main spiritual practice
in my life right now.Question: Why did you
[31:00] shift to writing from the female perspective?Gilbert:
It’s funny ‘cause I wrote for and about
[31:04] men for like a solid decade.
[31:07] That’s pretty much all I did.
[31:08] I think I had to work through some issues.
[31:12] And also, fearful, always, of my own vulnerabilities.
[31:15] I think I was intrinsically attracted to,
like, flinty, macho people.
[31:22] Wanting to be like that because it’s not,
at all, how I am.
[31:27] You know, I kind of magnetize toward people
like that.
[31:30] And I was interested in them and…
[31:32] You know, I wrote for SPIN for years and I
wrote for GQ for years.
[31:35] They’re both really male focused magazines.
[31:37] And, you know, I wrote a book called the “Last
American Man”, that was this big study of
[31:42] a woodsman.
[31:43] And then, my novel “Stern Men” was about
a girl but it was a girl in a very manly world,
[31:50] on who behaved in a very manly manner, and
who was, herself, sort of tough and macho
[31:55] and flinty.
[31:57] And then, after, really, a solid decade of
doing nothing but kind of exhaustively examining
[32:03] masculinity from every possible angle to the
point that I even did a story for GQ once
[32:07] where I became a man for a week, like inhabiting
it in this really intense and direct way,
[32:14] you know, my life fell apart.
[32:15] And I wrote my way through it with “Eat,
Pray, Love”.
[32:17] And then, the book came… this became this
big phenomenon.
[32:20] And suddenly, I started hearing myself refer
to as a chic lit author which was… was really
[32:24] strange after a decade of, like, really putting
in the hour to write about men and think about
[32:30] men and…
[32:31] Back in my 20s, people use to say that I wrote
like a man, which I took as a compliment.
[32:35] And now, I’m often referred to as a chic
lit writer which I…
[32:40] I’m not even completely certain I know what
that means except that I’m pretty certain
[32:44] it is never intended as a compliment, you
know.
[32:47] And I…
[32:48] I think it’s strange.
[32:49] I think it’s curious, this whole idea of,
like, gender based writing.
[32:53] And I also…
[32:54] I have to say, the whole chic lit thing bugs
me because, you know, in our culture at this
[32:58] moment in time, it is women who read.
[33:01] And pretty much exclusively, it is women who
read.
[33:04] And there is this kind of denigration of women’s
reading which is a pity because they’re
[33:10] the ones holding that whole custom up right
now.
[33:13] So it’s odd.
[33:15] And my next book, which is a memoir and a
kind of meditation on the subject of marriage
[33:21] is definitely sort of…
[33:22] You know, I definitely had female readers
in mind when I was writing it so I don’t
[33:26] think that chic lit label is going to go away
anytime soon.
[33:30] But I don’t know if…
[33:31] I don’t know if there’s such a thing as
gender neutral writing, gender neutral thinking,
[33:39] or…
[33:40] I don’t know.
[33:41] I’m really interested in questions that
most of my female friends are really interested
[33:45] in right now.
[33:46] That’s kind of where I’m at, at the moment.
[33:47] I might go back to writing about cowboys at
some point in the future but I don’t really
[33:52] think so.
[33:53] I’m not sure what the next thing will be
but this is where I am now.Question: Do women
[34:02] have more spiritual work to do than men?Gilbert:
Yeah.
[34:03] Women have special work to do at this point
in time.
[34:05] It’s a really interesting moment in history
to have decided to be a woman.
[34:10] It’s…
[34:12] You know, we have…
[34:14] I feel like any women of our generation…
[34:16] And by our generation, I mean, anybody who
is born in the last 100 years, basically.
[34:20] I think this era of women have become sort
of hamsters in a great unprecedented social
[34:31] experiment, which is what happens if you give
women a little bit of power, what happens
[34:36] if you give them autonomy, what happens if
you give them control over the reproduction,
[34:40] and what happens if you give them earnings,
what happens if you give them options, you
[34:44] know.
[34:45] That social experiment has never been played
out before.
[34:47] And, so we’re kind of…
[34:50] I really do feel like we’re all sort of
hamsters in this maze, this big sociological
[34:54] test that’s going on and all of us are sort
of figuring out how to do it as we go.
[35:00] Because we don’t have centuries and centuries
and millennia and millennia of role models
[35:06] for how you do this, you know.
[35:08] We don’t have centuries of epics that are
written about how you do this.
[35:14] You know, we don’t have Odysseus.
[35:15] We have, you know, Penelope and the big weaving
and unweaving and weaving and unweaving scene
[35:23] that just gets repeated and repeated and repeated,
that doesn’t really… you know, it’s
[35:26] not really relevant anymore to most of our
lives.
[35:29] And so, we’re all kind of charting our own
mythologies as we go.
[35:32] And one of these great things that I heard
once about this was Martha Beck, said that
[35:38] she feels like she’s met only 4 kinds of
women in her life recently.
[35:41] And its women who…
[35:44] The first kind is women who decided to have
a family instead of having a career and who
[35:48] feel conflicted about that choice.
[35:51] And then, there are women who decided to have
a career instead of having a family and who
[35:55] feel conflicted about that choice.
[35:57] And then, there are the women who decided
to have a family and a career who feel really,
[36:00] really conflicted about that choice.
[36:03] And then, there are the mystics.
[36:05] And that’s the fourth sort of strange category.
[36:09] And she defines the mystics as a woman from
any one of those other 3 categories who has
[36:15] somehow been able to kind of drawn out or,
like, drum out all of the other distractions
[36:22] and all of the other options and she’s chosen
her life, being guided by some sort of deeply
[36:30] honest, interior voice.
[36:33] And she has made all sorts of peace with what
she’s doing.
[36:38] And that is who she is and she’s certain
of it.
[36:40] And I would argue that any area that demands
that people have to essentially become mystics
[36:47] in order to find peace and happiness is a
real tough time in which to live.
[36:51] Because in other areas and other societies,
you didn’t necessarily have to be a mystic
[36:55] in order to be a content person, you know.
[36:58] A path was laid out for you, that said, this
is what a good woman is, you know.
[37:03] And you went and you did those things and
you did them well and you could rest at night,
[37:08] you know, with a certain amount of peace,
knowing that you were a good woman.
[37:11] We don’t have that consensus anymore, about
what constitutes a good woman, what constitutes
[37:17] a woman’s life well-led.
[37:20] I think men, to a certain extent these days,
are also struggling with these questions but
[37:24] not nearly to the extent that women are.
[37:27] I mean, I remember being 18 years old in college
and sitting up for hours and hours and weeks
[37:33] and weeks on end with my fellow 18 year old
and trying to figure out what we were going
[37:37] to do in terms of when we’re going to have
kids and who’s going to raise them and how
[37:40] are we going to have careers, and what if
we went to graduate school and what if want
[37:44] to do… you know.
[37:45] And I got to say, our 18 year old male peers,
I don’t think they were over in the dorm
[37:49] room, like, next door having that conversation,
you know.
[37:53] I think they, maybe, joined that conversation
after their first kid was born, when they
[37:58] were 36, you know.
[37:59] But I’m not sure they were worrying about
that the whole time.
[38:03] So it’s hard, you know.
[38:06] And I’m not the first person to have said
that, you know.
[38:09] But I think, maybe, again, going back to why
“Eat, Pray, Love” sort of struck a nerve
[38:15] with people, it’s like I kind of inserted
my own version of how to figure out that into
[38:24] people’s conversations.
[38:24] But it’s a conversation that’s been going
on for a really long time.
[38:27] That it’s not nearly over.Question: Is it
possible to balance friendship and romance?Gilbert:
[38:32] It’s so easy to find the balance between
yourself and your partner.
[38:37] No, I’m kidding.
[38:38] It’s not.
[38:39] It’s not at all.
[38:40] You know, “Eat, Pray, Love” ends on a
very romantic note because it ends within
[38:43] the first two months of a very romantic relationship,
right?
[38:46] And so, for me, now, I’m 5 years into that
relationship so it’s always sort of funny
[38:51] to me when people come up and they’re…
and they still have… just finish the book
[38:55] and they still have this very starry-eyed
idea like, oh lovely, you found this very
[38:59] romantic relationship, you know.
[39:01] And that very romantic relationship has now
evolved into a marriage, you know, which,
[39:05] like, everybody else’s marriage, is complex.
[39:10] And, you know, it’s much richer than the
romantic relationship in the first two months
[39:17] was.
[39:18] But I…
[39:19] I should’ve share to people that, you know,
was actually evolved into an actual real partnership
[39:25] now.
[39:26] And, you know, I think that some people were
really delighted by the ending of that because
[39:31] it gave them hope for romance, which we all
hold dear in our hearts.
[39:35] I think some people were agitated by the end
of that book because they felt like it sent
[39:39] a message that… you know.
[39:40] And therefore, the ending is that you have
to find a guy and you have to, you know, you
[39:45] have to be loved in this certain way.
[39:48] And, you know, the story was told in a way
that it was told simply because that’s what
[39:52] happened, you know.
[39:53] What happened was that I did happen to meet
somebody who is really lovely and I wanted
[39:59] to pursue that.
[40:00] I think…
[40:01] You know, I…
[40:02] You know, somebody said, “Well, do you think
the message is that you need… you know,
[40:09] that you need love?”
[40:10] And I was like, “Well, I think the message
is that you need healthy love, you know.
[40:14] And if you can find that or something that’s
as close to that as you possible can, that’s,
[40:19] you know, by all means, that’s something
that you should feel entitled to look for,
[40:25] Question: What are your thoughts on marriage?Gilbert:
A lot of these questions…
[40:29] I’ve been thinking about it a lot and working
on it a lot ‘cause my next book is all about
[40:32] marriage, which is, of course, you know, marriage
is kind of the antithesis to romance in a
[40:37] way.
[40:38] And I ended up having to get married because
the Homeland Security department got involved
[40:44] and actually chucked my sweetheart out of
the country.
[40:47] And the only way I could get him back was
to marry him.
[40:49] And I have, you know, for reasons I probably
don’t have to go into, really ambivalent
[40:53] feelings about the whole institution of marriage.
[40:55] And so, again, because I have a lot of time
on my hands because I’m a writer, I could
[41:01] spend, you know, 2 years doing nothing but
reading books about the history of marriage
[41:05] and sort of trying to wrap my mind around
ideas about marriage.
[41:09] And…
[41:11] I wouldn’t say that I’m an expert on it
but I would say that it becomes clearer to
[41:16] me, the more I read about it, why it is so
very, very confusing for people to try to
[41:22] figure out the balance in their lives and
between self and other…
[41:29] And again, this isn’t a particularly easy
time to be trying to figure that out because
[41:33] those roles have opened up.
[41:35] And men and women can be all sorts of different
things in each other’s lives than they could
[41:38] be in more traditional and rigorous societies.
[41:42] The stakes are huge because our expectations
for happiness are huge.
[41:45] But the opportunities are also really vast
because we have a lot of options and organizing
[41:52] our lives by our own terms.
[41:53] So again, welcome to modern life.
[41:56] I also just think…
[41:57] I don’t know.
[41:58] There comes a certain point in your life…
[41:59] I mean, one thing that’s been really interesting
to me about doing all this research about
[42:03] marriage is just realizing how the expectations
that we have burdened in this institution
[42:08] with, at this point in history, are staggeringly
huge.
[42:11] You know, on every generation since the 1700s
in Western culture has just heaped another
[42:17] layer of expectation on what they want out
of this relationship called marriage.
[42:21] And it is so out of scale right now.
[42:25] And, you know, there were some survey that…
[42:28] Back in the 1920s, there was a survey that
asked college women what they wanted in a
[42:33] partner and they listed all these virtues,
you know, reliability, honesty, decency, morality,
[42:40] you know.
[42:41] And somewhere down around 6 or 7 on the list
came love and passion.
[42:44] These things showed up sort of low on the
list.
[42:46] Prudence was sort up high, you know.
[42:49] And then, in the 1970s, they ask those questions
again to women and, you know, the very first
[42:53] thing on the list is, like, love, you know,
love and connection and intimacy and then,
[42:58] you know, the other stuff they weren’t really
paying very much attention to.
[43:01] And now, it’s even worse ‘cause they ask
this question and they say they want a man
[43:07] who will inspire them everyday.
[43:10] Like, I think that’s a lot, you know.
[43:17] Like…
[43:18] You know, or to be asked, you know, to want
to… to expect that the person in your life,
[43:25] should sort of almost in this divine way,
every single day, inspire you.
[43:30] It’s a huge thing to want somebody to be.
[43:35] And, you know, it’s a huge thing to have
somebody want from you, you know.
[43:39] I’m only capable of inspiring people, like,
every 3rd Wednesday, you know.
[43:43] Like, the rest of the time, I’m just trying
to, like, find my, you know, keys.
[43:48] You know…
[43:49] I mean, it’s…
[43:50] It’s hard.
[43:51] And so, you know…
[43:52] Well, I would never sit down with a young
woman and say to her, lower your expectations
[43:57] as a piece of advice for life.
[43:58] I think it’s been really sanity inducing
in me, just after doing all this research
[44:04] about marriage to realize.
[44:05] For better or worse, my expectations are really
big, you know, and do with that what you wish,
[44:13] you know.
[44:14] But that’s a good piece of information to
know.
[44:16] Because we shouldn’t walk around, thinking
that this is how people have always thought
[44:20] about marriage or that this is what people
have always expected out of their marriages.
[44:25] And…
[44:26] You know, I’m not quite sure how you resolve
that but it’s just a piece of information
[44:32] I didn’t have before, that I have it now.
[44:34] And it somehow changes things.
[44:37] When inevitable disappointments or frustrations
arise, I just think, what would a 17th century
[44:45] wife think about this, you know… you know,
what did my great grandmother think about
[44:49] this.
[44:50] There’s…
[44:51] It’s just…
[44:52] It’s helpful.
[44:53] Question: How have your thoughts on sexuality
changed?Gilbert: Well…
[44:57] I mean, I think like a lot of women when I
was younger.
[45:00] I don’t think I was so much concerned with
being objectified.
[45:04] I think I was kind of wishing I would be a
little bit more objectified.
[45:07] You know, I’d always been the smart girl
and the bookish girl.
[45:12] And I…
[45:13] You know, there was a certain sort of sexual
attention that I was longing for.
[45:16] And I was…
[45:17] I was wishing that I could generate…
[45:19] And then, I was always really happy to get
and always really happy to pursue whether
[45:23] or not it benefited me to be out, chasing
that in a certain way.
[45:28] Well, I was going to say it’s up for debate
but it’s not.
[45:30] It actually…
[45:31] Actually, it was not beneficial to be giving
so much attention to that.
[45:36] I was a boy crazy kid and I wanted a lot,
you know.
[45:42] I’m a very excitable person and I’m a
very passionate person.
[45:45] And, you know, just in the same way that as
a writer, I wanted to kind of go and roll
[45:49] around in the world and experience it in really
huge ways.
[45:52] I mean, I had a big hungry heart that wanted
to know love and infatuation and to disappear
[45:59] into the other end, you know.
[46:01] I mean, everything that you could do to try
to do that, I did, you know.
[46:08] And the results were fairly predictable.
[46:10] You know, it’s like a lot of messes, you
know, a lot of just really messy experimentation
[46:16] with intimacy, a lot of, like, throwing…
impaling myself on people on really unhealthy
[46:23] ways, a lot of carelessness toward people
and other really unhealthy ways.
[46:28] It’s just a…
[46:29] It was just a big, flat, hot mess, you know.
[46:32] But, I guess, I had to go through that, you
know, as many of us do and kind of, you know,
[46:42] see that all out to its natural conclusion
and then, take a lot of time to be alone,
[46:47] you know.
[46:48] It’s interesting ‘cause therapists always
say that they have 2 kinds of patients.
[46:52] The ones that need to be, like, screwed in
a little tighter and the ones that need to
[46:56] be loosened up, you know.
[46:58] And I was definitely one who needs to be screwed
a little tighter, you know.
[47:01] I know that, like, that other people’s psychological
problems, that they’re too withholding and
[47:06] mine was, you know, kind of the opposite.
[47:07] I had to sort of narrow my margins in order
to become sane.
[47:12] And a lot of that, for me, came just from
spending a lot of time by myself, which I
[47:15] never done before ‘cause I was always seeking
that reflection in the other person.
[47:20] And…
[47:21] You know, I have a really pretty good relationship
now.
[47:24] And, you know, I sleep with one eye open when
it comes to love because I’ve made such
[47:29] huge mistakes and I’ve been punished for
those mistakes.
[47:31] So, I think, when you’ve been through a
divorce as crappy as my divorce and when you’ve
[47:34] been through, you know, breakups as bad as
my breakup, you’re always a little… you’re
[47:38] always waiting for the other shoe to drop
a little bit.
[47:39] Like, when is this…
[47:40] You know, is this really… is this real ‘cause
this is pretty good but, you know, how long
[47:45] is this going to last.
[47:46] But I also…
[47:47] I don’t know.
[47:48] I try not to walk around, calling trouble’s
name.
[47:50] You know, if things are going well, I try
to be happy to just let that be well and recognize
[47:56] that if trouble wants to find you, it knows
where you live and it will come and knock
[48:01] on your door.
[48:02] But I don’t go looking for it very much
anymore.
[48:03] Question: What is the best advice you ever
received?Gilbert: The best advice I ever gotten
[48:10] came from my mom.
[48:11] And interestingly enough, I don’t think
she ever gave it to me directly.
[48:16] I just remember hearing it from her in another
context.
[48:22] My mom, in the 1970s, worked as a nurse at
Planned Parenthood.
[48:26] And she was really on the frontlines of the
whole women’s reproduction kind of debate,
[48:36] the beginnings of access to birth control
and the beginnings of the idea that people
[48:41] should be taught about their bodies.
[48:43] You know, it was a really controversial and
heated moment in time.
[48:47] And she was right there, in the middle of
it.
[48:51] And it meant a lot to her, it meant a lot
to her for a lot of reasons.
[48:55] But probably, foremost, of which was that
she had grown up in this farming community
[49:00] in Minnesota where she had watched as, every
year, one 16 year old after another got pregnant
[49:07] and it was a scandal, you know.
[49:10] And every single time, it was a scandal as
though it had never happened before much less
[49:13] 6 times in the last year.
[49:15] And every single time, the girl’s life was
ruined unless the boy married her and the
[49:21] boy’s virtue is never questioned.
[49:23] And there were all sort of…
[49:24] There were just all sorts of wrongness about
it.
[49:27] And she watched her aunts and her mother having
more children than they could manage.
[49:32] And, you know, there was just a lot about
it that was really important to her.
[49:36] And she told me once that…
[49:39] You know, she use to council on girls and
women who were coming to plan parenthood with
[49:48] really big decisions to make.
[49:50] And she said to me once that… it was so
daunting because, you know, they wanted advice
[49:57] and it was their lives and it was their bodies
and she said that she would tell them, “Please
[50:05] do me this great service and please do me
this great favor and please do yourself this
[50:10] great favor.
[50:11] And try to remember, 10 years from now, when
you’re second guessing this decision that
[50:17] you made, that you made the very best decision
that you could make on this day with the information
[50:23] that you had today.
[50:25] As the years go by, you’ll have more information
and you might wish that you had done things
[50:30] differently.
[50:31] But just don’t forget that on the day that
you had to make the choice you didn’t know
[50:36] and you only knew what you have now.
[50:39] Don’t abuse yourself later for what you
didn’t know now.”
[50:43] And it just strikes me so compassionate.
[50:47] And it’s such an easy thing to forget because
if you’re like me, you spend a lot of your
[50:51] life in sort of retrospective regret for things
that you wish you had known at the time.
[50:59] We can be cruel to ourselves in that way.
[51:01] And it’s a lot of wisdom to expect that
10 years ago, we should’ve known what we
[51:09] know now.
[51:10] That’s an unreasonable thing to ask.
[51:13] So that will be the best advice I ever got.
[51:15] Just remember, when you’re in the course
of a difficult decision or when you look back
[51:19] on that difficult decision in decades to follow,
that you made the best choice you could, given
[51:28] what you had.