Transcript
[0:04] welcome everyone back to the school of
[0:06] grain's podcast very excited about our
[0:08] guest it's not Elizabeth it's Liz
[0:10] Gilbert thanks for coming on Hello
[0:12] darling good to see you it's good to see
[0:13] you I've been uh emailing you for about
[0:16] a year now trying to make this happen so
[0:18] we finally I was persistent enough
[0:20] finally made it happen to the
[0:22] restraining orders exactly didn't even
[0:24] sign when I served you papers it's
[0:26] amazing I just finally gave up and here
[0:27] I am and I'm super grateful exactly Bell
[0:30] was like you got to have Liz on sometime
[0:33] about a year ago he was like you got to
[0:34] get her on and so I was like can you
[0:35] make the intro and so we made it happen
[0:37] so I'm really glad you're here in the
[0:39] studio in La awesome Rob is our is our
[0:42] shared brother I know he's amazing yep
[0:44] he's incredible uh and you guys are
[0:45] doing a workshop tomorrow actually which
[0:47] will this will be afterwards that it
[0:48] comes out but um do you guys do a lot of
[0:50] work together workshops and speeches no
[0:52] this is the first thing we've ever done
[0:54] I mean we've we met on to drop a name on
[0:56] the Oprah tour no big deal perhaps
[0:59] you've heard of her um and I had you
[1:02] know we hadn't known each other before
[1:03] that so we did this8 City stadium tour
[1:06] together where we were totally the
[1:09] youngest brother and sister on the
[1:11] family bus ride definitely Amy py was
[1:13] there too right uh no Amy wasn't there
[1:16] oh yeah am party yes of course sorry I
[1:17] was thinking of Amy Cy um yeah Amy was
[1:19] there she just I just had her on the
[1:20] other day fantastic yeah she's great um
[1:23] you know deepok was there aming um El of
[1:26] his a bunch of All Star no big deal it
[1:28] was it was fantastic and I got to watch
[1:31] Rob eight times in a row give a speech
[1:34] that just you know what he does he's
[1:37] amazing like just brought everyone up
[1:40] and then down and then back up and then
[1:42] it was like just watching a conductor
[1:45] work with people's Spirits it was
[1:46] beautiful it was absolutely beautiful
[1:48] yeah he's amazing I had him speak at my
[1:50] uh book launch party I had him open up
[1:51] for me uhuh and just at Wonder L where
[1:54] you guys are going to be doing a
[1:55] workshop actually tomorrow and it was
[1:56] like blew me away so so cool um and I'll
[1:59] be there on Tuesday night are you going
[1:59] to be here Tuesday for his thing no
[2:01] you'll be gone okay cool yeah anyways
[2:03] great guy um but the first question I
[2:05] want to ask you since you just asked me
[2:06] to ask you this we were talking about
[2:08] competitiveness right and you said um
[2:11] there's a difference between
[2:12] competitiveness and ambition right so
[2:14] can you talk about those yeah because
[2:16] you were talking about being very
[2:17] competitive and I'm I am actually not a
[2:20] compeer um I'm not a competitive person
[2:22] but I'm a very ambitious person it's
[2:23] taken me years to recognize how I
[2:26] discern a difference between those two
[2:27] words and they are sometimes overlapping
[2:30] but not always um I think it's rare to
[2:32] be one without the other um but in my
[2:35] case I'm definitely ambitious so to me
[2:38] competitive means I will beat you at
[2:41] everything from thumb wrestling to like
[2:44] who can cross the street faster to who
[2:46] can drink this coffee faster to who can
[2:48] like at whatever the thing is I will
[2:50] beat I must there's only one rule which
[2:53] is what they used to who is the um the
[2:54] horse that they used to say only had one
[2:56] rule and that was that she had to win um
[2:58] that's it that's the only rule of
[2:59] competitiveness right and ambition which
[3:01] is interconnected but can also be
[3:03] distinct means I
[3:06] will be the very highest possible
[3:09] version of myself that I can be and it
[3:12] doesn't have that much to do with what
[3:14] anybody else is doing um you know and so
[3:18] for me the ambition is what is the best
[3:21] writing that I can do and and that's why
[3:24] I don't spend a lot of time looking
[3:26] at it is nice if you can win rankings is
[3:30] and stuff it's so you didn't look when
[3:31] you were like 10 years on the New York
[3:32] Times list it didn't you weren't looking
[3:34] at the list I was so happy when it first
[3:36] like when it first hit there but then no
[3:38] I didn't spend every Saturday morning
[3:40] opening up the where am I now am I and
[3:43] and and I wanted to and it's also yes
[3:45] but that felt like a Personal
[3:46] Achievement but I don't resent the
[3:48] person who then took my spot um you know
[3:50] when my time was over and somebody else
[3:52] became number one I wasn't
[3:54] like it kills me to see somebody else at
[3:57] that position besides me you know um
[3:59] like that doesn't
[4:00] I have I come from a really competitive
[4:02] family and I think from an early age I
[4:05] just felt like this feels slightly
[4:07] dangerous to me um how much everybody
[4:10] cares about beating everybody at
[4:12] everything um I can't even join that
[4:16] sure sure this just feels like too much
[4:19] work right and too much at stake for
[4:22] everything like we're playing you guys
[4:24] we're playing old ma right like it
[4:26] doesn't have to be a Blood Sport you
[4:28] know but but it kind of was Monopoly
[4:30] people are like slaming the God you have
[4:32] no idea Louis you know like everything
[4:35] you know so I think I just opted out of
[4:38] and I was more focused on you know what
[4:41] do I want to be and what do I want to
[4:42] become and and those Ambitions extend
[4:44] for me Beyond just my writing career and
[4:47] into sort of my personal Ambitions for
[4:49] what kind of a person do I want to be
[4:51] what if it's a an athlete or someone
[4:53] that play you know it's great to say
[4:55] well just be the best version of
[4:57] yourself and don't focus on winning
[4:59] focus on whatever being the best but
[5:01] then you're losing all the time that's
[5:03] not going to make you feel that great if
[5:04] you're an athlete playing there's a
[5:06] winner and a loser you know what I mean
[5:07] I would imagine if you are an athlete at
[5:09] a level where it matters um you will not
[5:12] be like me right I mean I mean that's
[5:15] why I'm not an athlete I me and it's I
[5:17] mean I would not suggest that anybody
[5:19] who has any skin in the game in any
[5:20] athletic Endeavor approach life the way
[5:23] that I do because what you need is to I
[5:25] mean look I'll tell you Louis I played
[5:27] Sports I was not bad at sports I played
[5:29] Sports and all through high school I was
[5:31] a letter winner from freshman year in
[5:33] three sports like but and I loved the
[5:35] camaraderie and the teams I love being
[5:37] on the bus yeah you know I loved being
[5:39] outside in the weather I loved all of it
[5:41] except the competitiveness of it and I
[5:43] remember vividly being in a the end of a
[5:45] basketball game and just having this
[5:48] really existential thought I was 15
[5:49] years old and I remember thinking as I'm
[5:52] just like booking up the court thinking
[5:55] I truly do not understand why it matters
[5:59] which one of these these teams wins I
[6:01] like literally do not understand and all
[6:02] I could think was if I went to shog high
[6:05] school the other school we were playing
[6:07] all these girls would be my friends so
[6:10] why do I care if I beat them because if
[6:12] I was if I were born there then I'd be
[6:14] playing against us you do not want that
[6:17] person on your team leis somebody who
[6:20] thinks like that is not a clutch player
[6:23] you know like that is not an athletes
[6:25] way of thinking you know unless you're a
[6:26] marathon but even then you want to win
[6:28] your Marathon um so would so that's the
[6:31] moment at which I realized that athletic
[6:33] Endeavor was probably not a future for
[6:35] me right right Artistry was probably a
[6:37] better place competitive writing is not
[6:39] either it's it's about being creating
[6:41] your best work that's the idea and the
[6:43] best work kind of Rises to the top
[6:45] essentially hopefully right well and I
[6:46] do think this too I think that um my
[6:48] friend Sarah Jones who's a performance
[6:50] artist who's W you know Tony's and and
[6:53] just fantastic she has a beautiful way
[6:56] of expressing this that she said at the
[6:57] beginning of any creative endeavor
[7:00] there's a highway that I have to be on
[7:01] this is her words not mine I'm
[7:02] paraphrasing she said there's a highway
[7:04] that I have to be on to do this work and
[7:08] along that Highway there's any number of
[7:10] detours and anytime I find myself asking
[7:13] questions such as am I going to be able
[7:15] to win a Tony with this is my agent
[7:17] going to be able to sell this are people
[7:19] going to want this is the audience going
[7:21] to respond to this is this the right
[7:22] kind of work is this what the market is
[7:24] calling for is that she said all of
[7:25] those questions are detours off the
[7:28] highway that I need to be on and any of
[7:30] those questions that I start asking
[7:32] myself at the beginning of a creative
[7:33] journey is going to take me right off
[7:34] that Highway and into this same
[7:35] neighborhood every time and that's in
[7:37] ghetto where they're going to take the
[7:38] hubc Caps off my car and beat me and
[7:40] leave me for dead because it's going to
[7:41] leave me asking the wrong questions and
[7:44] the only question at the beginning of
[7:45] this creative Endeavor is does the
[7:47] thought of making this Illuminate Me
[7:50] Ignite Me make me feel like I can't wait
[7:52] to get up in the morning and give
[7:54] meaning to a life that is otherwise
[7:55] often very difficult if the answer is
[7:57] yes then I'm on the right Road you know
[7:58] um and anything else and any other
[8:00] reason you know um also puts you in I
[8:04] think Hungry Ghost category which is
[8:07] when is it enough you know I was on the
[8:09] I was number one New York Times best
[8:11] seller for a year if all I cared about
[8:14] in my life was being at the top there
[8:17] was a day that came when I wasn't that
[8:19] anymore and that would have been a very
[8:22] bad day for me instead of me being like
[8:25] this journey is amazing and now what am
[8:27] I going to make you know when I wrote
[8:28] the book that came after love my book
[8:31] committed which I still really like that
[8:33] book sold one
[8:35] 1000 of the copies of e pre love if I
[8:37] were somebody who only had to win and I
[8:39] saw that chart that's a plug committed
[8:42] suicide that is a bad chart like that's
[8:44] the opposite of up and to the right
[8:45] that's like a stark and instead I was
[8:48] like I like that book that's I'm I still
[8:51] like that book and now what now what do
[8:53] I want to make you know um because I
[8:56] think you can't stay there you can even
[8:59] get there you know say you're I had this
[9:01] woman write to me this young woman who
[9:02] said I don't think I should be made to
[9:04] feel a shame that I want to be don't
[9:06] just want to be an actress I want to be
[9:07] a great actress I want to be a famous
[9:09] actress and I want to win Awards and I
[9:10] said no one should make you feel ashamed
[9:12] for that I wanted to all those things in
[9:14] writing but just know that if that is
[9:16] your only motivation for doing this
[9:19] satisfaction will never be in your hand
[9:21] yeah because even if let's take it to
[9:24] the top even if you win an Oscar what
[9:27] happens the next year when someone else
[9:29] does yeah right so let sure be ambitious
[9:33] want everything no problem but if you
[9:34] don't have a soul reason to do it you
[9:37] only have an egoo reason to do it then
[9:39] you're setting yourself up for a life of
[9:41] suffering where you will never have
[9:43] enough yeah and someone will always be
[9:46] on your neck coming up behind you and
[9:48] you will never know when to rest in
[9:50] contentment and that just sounds like
[9:51] hell to me yeah it's interesting I was
[9:54] listening to your interview with or not
[9:56] interview but your Super Soul sessions
[9:59] where talked about discovering your
[10:01] passion and how you Liv the life of
[10:03] passion you used to tell people passion
[10:05] passion go find it go follow it Go
[10:07] pursue it um and you said that there was
[10:10] a woman that wrote you a letter talked
[10:11] about how she didn't just know her
[10:14] passion yeah or her passion changes or
[10:17] you know it comes and goes um can you
[10:20] talk about that in regards to what we
[10:21] were just covering yeah I mean I've
[10:24] always had the great Good Fortune of
[10:26] knowing what I love um and I love
[10:29] writing and so my life has been really
[10:30] simple that's all I do that's kind of
[10:32] the definition of a passion right I know
[10:34] it makes your life really easy knew what
[10:35] you wanted I knew what I wanted I liked
[10:37] it I didn't really like you magazines
[10:39] right you wrote short stories very clear
[10:41] it's like this is it here's the path
[10:43] everything else can take a number right
[10:45] like that's always been really obvious
[10:46] to me and so it's also been very obvious
[10:49] to me to go around telling people just
[10:51] do that like you know that thing that
[10:53] you love more than anything just do that
[10:55] right right right like it just seemed
[10:56] like the easiest it seems like good
[10:57] advice and even kind advice right and so
[11:00] after R Pray Love came out I started
[11:02] kind of professionally saying that going
[11:04] on stages and telling people just find
[11:06] your passion do your passion blah blah
[11:07] blah passion passion and then one day I
[11:10] did an event in Australia and when I got
[11:12] back there was a long letter on my wall
[11:13] on my Facebook wall from a young woman
[11:15] who said you know I came I came to your
[11:17] event looking for inspiration and I have
[11:18] to tell you I'm sitting alone in the
[11:20] dark in my room and I've never felt
[11:21] worse about myself than I feel right now
[11:24] because all I've been doing is trying to
[11:26] figure out what that thing is that
[11:27] you're talking about and I'm telling you
[11:29] I don't have one in the way that you
[11:31] define it as that thing that makes you
[11:33] feel like your hair is on fire that you
[11:35] would sacrifice anything for and it's
[11:37] not for lack of looking and it's not for
[11:39] lack of people and people like you are
[11:41] constantly saying to people like me that
[11:43] this is the answer and I and I just feel
[11:46] like a loser and a failure and that I'm
[11:48] interested in a lot of things but
[11:50] nothing that I would die for nothing
[11:52] that I would give my all life for so I
[11:56] know you didn't mean to but you just
[11:59] made me feel feel like the biggest
[12:00] failure and loser in the world and it
[12:02] was such a head turning thing for me
[12:05] leis cuz I was like how many people have
[12:07] I done that to you know and I started
[12:09] thinking about all the people who I know
[12:11] and love and asking myself how many of
[12:13] them could truly say as I can that from
[12:16] the time they were like basically six
[12:19] they had no question about what they
[12:21] were supposed to be doing with their Liv
[12:23] zero but statistically zero maybe a
[12:25] couple but very few yeah and everybody
[12:27] else I know including people who I
[12:30] admire and who I go to when I'm broken
[12:32] down and I want advice like I everyone
[12:34] else's path has looked like a path
[12:37] through a Carnival Fun House you know
[12:39] like trick mirrors and trap doors like
[12:42] um and and trying this and it not quite
[12:44] working and trying that and doing this
[12:46] and so I was realizing like we preach
[12:48] this passion thing in an almost
[12:50] fundamentalist way you know but and I'm
[12:54] a jackhammer when I there's something
[12:56] that I care about and want to do I'm
[12:58] fully focused but what if what if
[13:01] everyone was what a weird and boring
[13:02] world that would be right and so I've
[13:04] now sort of distinguished my mind
[13:06] between what I call Jackhammer and what
[13:07] I call hummingbirds and the hummingbirds
[13:09] are people who
[13:10] cross-pollinate the World by just moving
[13:13] from field to field and pursuit and
[13:15] pursuit and taking ideas from one place
[13:17] and bringing them to another and mixing
[13:18] it up and they're not as they don't get
[13:20] as much attention and credit as
[13:22] Jackhammer because they're not as loud
[13:23] as us leis that's true nothing louder
[13:26] than a jackhammer like once we get going
[13:28] we sort of don't shut up you know and
[13:31] hummingbirds they're beautiful and so it
[13:33] was just this idea there's other ways to
[13:35] be you don't have to be the way that I
[13:38] am f a box or fit in a one yeah and
[13:39] don't let if you don't look if you have
[13:41] a passion of course do it if you don't
[13:43] happen to have one don't worry about it
[13:45] and maybe there's a gentler answer which
[13:46] is follow your curiosity um which is a
[13:49] smaller impulse and a lighter one and a
[13:51] less high stakes one than passion and
[13:53] you don't mortgage your whole house to
[13:55] go follow your curiosity you just try it
[13:57] for a weekend maybe you like it maybe
[13:59] it's something maybe it's not maybe in
[14:01] the end you kind of embroider a very
[14:03] complex beautiful Patchwork life for
[14:05] yourself and at the end of your life
[14:07] maybe you're not at the top of the Heap
[14:08] but you're able to say I did the most
[14:11] interesting thing a human being can do
[14:13] which is to to follow this slight pollen
[14:17] trail of my inquisitiveness for the
[14:18] entirety of my life and through that I
[14:20] cross-pollinated the world and created a
[14:22] beautiful work of art of my own
[14:23] existence that's not so bad you know but
[14:26] it doesn't get a lot of credit in a
[14:28] really competitive pass
[14:30] passion fetishizing Society I get it I
[14:33] get it I guess in that analogy I
[14:34] consider myself like a humming Hammer
[14:37] maybe you know what I mean like uh and I
[14:40] look at I look at everything as Seasons
[14:41] like in the Sports World there's a
[14:44] preseason the SE the regular
[14:47] season the the playoff season then the
[14:49] postseason right right just like in life
[14:51] there's Four Seasons Four Seasons to
[14:52] every sport right and uh you know do
[14:55] them again preseason there's the
[14:56] preseason there's the the season the
[14:58] regular season the play offseason and
[15:00] the Poston postseason okay um and I you
[15:04] know you I prepare myself I go all in on
[15:06] this sport for one season right the
[15:08] preseason we're training mode four or
[15:09] five hours a day getting ready for the
[15:11] regular season then grinding it out then
[15:13] try to make the playoffs season then the
[15:15] playoffs you try to win the championship
[15:17] then afterwards you evaluate in this
[15:19] moment like okay did I fully love this
[15:21] season do I still love this sport this
[15:24] be do I still love writing do I still
[15:25] love this career path I'm on and then in
[15:27] the postseason I reeval
[15:30] do I want to cross pollinate somewhere
[15:31] else and try my curiosity some another
[15:33] sport or another thing or do I go into
[15:36] another preseason right or postseason to
[15:38] lead up to the same sport do you leave
[15:40] you know it's so funny because I always
[15:41] talk about my writing as seasonal as
[15:42] well but coming from a farm background I
[15:44] think of it as agricultural season sure
[15:46] um including Seasons where you leave the
[15:48] field fallow um so that the ground can
[15:51] restore itself yeah Seasons where you
[15:53] don't work um so that you don't
[15:56] overstress sure the uh you know Rob
[15:58] talks about that too lot about like yeah
[16:00] you got to take a break you got to take
[16:02] a break yeah just not train so
[16:04] interesting yeah but I like that it's I
[16:07] like that you Ed that word too because I
[16:08] use that but now I'm going to say I'm in
[16:10] postseason right now from my last book
[16:12] go postseason is just like you're taking
[16:13] a break you're evaluating you're you
[16:14] work on your injuries you recover yeah
[16:17] you heal you heal that's what it is you
[16:19] heal because it's a lot of work you know
[16:21] if Tom Brady um are you a big NFL fan I
[16:24] am a big enough NFL fan to be able to
[16:26] follow along with where you're going
[16:27] what Tom Brady is I do know what Tom
[16:28] Brady is if Tom Brady was playing a SE a
[16:32] game every weekend for the last 15 years
[16:35] he'd be broken down yeah he needs that
[16:37] three months to recover and whatever do
[16:38] whatever he does with Jazelle around the
[16:40] world and travel and it think of new
[16:42] ways to be a
[16:43] jerk I'm met him he actually pretty nice
[16:46] guy pretty nice guy I met him um he's
[16:50] he's one of the most focused guys I've
[16:51] ever met yes he is he is committed to
[16:53] ordinary at his job so good at his job
[16:56] um so anyways yeah he could work on
[16:58] being a better sport but that's all
[16:59] right you know attitude we all have our
[17:02] personality you should talk to you
[17:03] should talk to them about
[17:05] that we all have our own
[17:07] personality sorry Tom if you're
[17:09] listening to this you're very handsome
[17:11] and talented man he is yeah um but it's
[17:15] interesting because I got a lot of
[17:16] people that ask me you know how do I
[17:17] find my passion but I like your response
[17:19] to it it's like maybe just find what
[17:21] you're curious about right now you know
[17:23] my thing is if you have one you'll know
[17:25] it right so you shouldn't if you have
[17:26] one you won't even be asking that
[17:28] because you're already doing it if you
[17:29] don't have one take the pressure of that
[17:33] word off your it's just such a pressure
[17:35] word and and just keep going back to the
[17:38] word curiosity because you do have that
[17:41] yeah you know um and and the thing about
[17:43] curiosity that I think is interesting is
[17:45] how underestimated it is
[17:47] because I think a lot of the times
[17:49] people are missing their their
[17:51] invitations there are all these
[17:52] invitations for transformation and for
[17:54] creativity they're missing them because
[17:56] their eyes are in the wrong place so
[17:58] their eyes are in the sky
[17:59] looking for the clouds to part they're
[18:01] looking for Moses to come down with like
[18:03] you know tablets they're looking for the
[18:05] voice of God they're looking for the big
[18:07] sign because they think that that's how
[18:10] it comes and in fact it's your eyes have
[18:13] to be on the ground looking for the
[18:16] almost invisible trail of breadcrumbs
[18:19] that's the path right and so the
[18:21] breadcrumbs are all around you and
[18:22] people aren't even their focus isn't
[18:24] there it's up in the heavens like
[18:26] where's my sign where's my sign and the
[18:28] other way that curi comes I think is
[18:30] that tiny little
[18:31] almost almost imperceptible tap on the
[18:35] shoulder that asks you if you would
[18:38] please turn your head an eighth of an
[18:40] inch and look a little closer at this
[18:41] thing that you're barely interested in
[18:44] just have the most mild
[18:46] little touch of interest and I feel like
[18:50] people are getting those touches all the
[18:52] time and they're brushing off their
[18:54] shoulders
[18:55] like why are they brushing it because
[18:57] they don't think it's for them ific
[19:00] because it doesn't seem big or important
[19:02] enough um and as soon as that little tap
[19:04] comes and if you even bother to turn
[19:06] your head and E inch and look at it more
[19:09] closely in that moment you're like this
[19:11] isn't a thing yeah this is nothing this
[19:13] is like so small and so insignificant
[19:16] but it is a thing it's the first clue on
[19:18] the scavenger hunt it's the first
[19:20] breadcrumb and the I think the
[19:23] foremost sort of shape of my entire
[19:26] creative Journey has been about being
[19:28] really trusting of that you know like I
[19:30] don't know why I'm interested in this I
[19:33] don't even know what this means right
[19:35] now but I'm going to trust that that's
[19:38] an invitation or the beginning of an
[19:39] invitation and and then I'm going to
[19:41] look for the next tiny little tap and
[19:43] the next you know breadcrumb and so it's
[19:45] not my life hasn't been a series of
[19:47] thunderous epiphanies it's been a a
[19:49] series of tiny whispered invitations
[19:52] every single one of them that I've heard
[19:54] I've said okay let me check this out a
[19:56] little more all right let's check it out
[19:57] and sometimes it's nothing sometimes
[19:59] it's not a thing you know um but it's
[20:01] never wasted yeah you know um so I think
[20:05] there's a wonderful thing I saw recently
[20:06] don't ask for a sign and then ignore it
[20:08] when it comes but I think people don't
[20:10] even know it is one because it doesn't
[20:12] look like the ones in the movies yeah or
[20:14] the ones in the speeches that people
[20:17] give yeah you know it doesn't it doesn't
[20:20] it doesn't have voice of God but voice
[20:22] of God is sometimes like hey
[20:25] buddy right just two inches to
[20:29] yeah you know um just a little flutter
[20:31] in your heart or your stomach just a
[20:32] little bit I trust that with my life
[20:35] I've trusted my life with that feeling
[20:37] what do you think is the biggest thing
[20:38] that holds people back then is it fear
[20:39] or is it pain or is it both or something
[20:42] else it's always fear and fear for Game
[20:46] of Thrones fans out there is the
[20:47] original many-faced God right it's fear
[20:50] has so many disguises that it can take
[20:54] and but I know it by its by its works it
[20:57] shall be known right here's how you know
[20:59] it's fear it's stopping you it's fear um
[21:03] so it's it's how it makes you behave
[21:05] that makes you know what it is so fear
[21:07] can look like fear as we sort of
[21:09] commonly and narrowly recognize it
[21:11] anxiety Panic insecurity fear can also
[21:14] look like
[21:16] apathy um you know a sort of deep onwe
[21:19] that makes a person just be like well
[21:21] it's better it's been done who cares but
[21:24] can look like s what do you mean it's
[21:25] been done like someone's already been
[21:26] there done that so why should I go yeah
[21:28] fear can look like snarkiness whenever I
[21:30] meet somebody who's really acidic and
[21:31] snarky I'm like terrified person right
[21:34] there you know um because all I can do
[21:36] is shred everything that anyone else is
[21:38] doing um because I can't even begin to
[21:42] have the courage to take my energies and
[21:44] point them toward anything fear can look
[21:46] like boredom um fear can look like
[21:48] perfectionism which I call fear in high
[21:50] heeled shoes and pearl necklace trying
[21:51] to be fancy when all it is is terrified
[21:54] fear can look like um self abuse I mean
[21:57] fear you know but but but basically
[22:00] it's if you're not doing it the thing or
[22:04] anything right it's fear has taken a
[22:06] disguise in your life and is blocking
[22:08] you and and I just if you peel off mask
[22:11] after mask after mask of all those
[22:12] behaviors when you get to the bottom of
[22:14] it it's just our old
[22:15] friend hello old friend hello
[22:20] feares it's always that it's always that
[22:22] you know I'm writing a a new book that I
[22:24] just uh started writing called The Mask
[22:26] of masculinity wow and it's about this
[22:29] process of how men but also women now
[22:31] have take on this mask of of masculinity
[22:34] but how men growing up have been
[22:36] conditioned and trained to put on this
[22:38] mask which is a fear-based mask a
[22:40] fear-based mask of looking bad of not
[22:42] being whatever be able to protect people
[22:43] or smart enough whatever it may be and
[22:47] uh it's been fascinating to like dive
[22:48] deep in the research because as an
[22:50] athlete you know just conditioned to
[22:54] never cry in front of people to never
[22:56] show pain or or fear or anything yeah
[22:59] and uh and kind of it's hard to like
[23:01] transition from the sports world into
[23:03] real life and and not carry on those
[23:05] masks at school or when you're
[23:06] relationships with your family or
[23:08] intimate relationships and then how that
[23:10] trains down to the children when men
[23:12] grow up and repeat the cycle so uh it's
[23:16] been interesting to dive into fear and
[23:18] and the mass that we live in yeah and I
[23:20] heard you know there's all those um
[23:22] studies on um is it called what's that
[23:25] fraud fraud syndrome right um the
[23:28] studies CEOs who when anonymously pulled
[23:31] how many of them what percentage of them
[23:33] believe that they're fraud that they're
[23:35] a fraud a lot of them right it's about
[23:39] 87% and the rest I guarantee you are
[23:43] sociopaths wow or lying they're either
[23:46] pathological Liars or so just so
[23:48] narcissistic and egotistical that they
[23:50] believe it that they're like yeah I
[23:51] should have this um give me the
[23:53] helicopter you know um instead of having
[23:56] any sort of fragile M Chocolate part
[24:00] inside that goes did I why are they
[24:02] trusting me with this how am I managing
[24:04] 20,000 people why do they think I know
[24:06] what I'm doing you know and um is there
[24:09] ever a point where we should think that
[24:10] we know what we're doing and be
[24:12] confident and be like yes I am a leader
[24:13] I can lead people even if it's three
[24:15] people to a thousand people yeah I'll
[24:17] tell you I'll tell you a story but it
[24:19] has to be done with here's the example I
[24:22] can give you back to the O tour just
[24:24] because that is how we began but this is
[24:26] also an illustrative story from my life
[24:29] is that
[24:30] when when Oprah invited me to come and
[24:33] speak to 20,000 people in sports
[24:35] stadiums with a Jumbotron and said you
[24:38] know 50- minute speech you know just
[24:41] Inspire everybody like got it done and
[24:43] done like what no big deal oh was that
[24:46] all um you want me to prepare or should
[24:48] I just get up and do my just come there
[24:51] so I spent six seven months working on
[24:54] that speech oh my goodness um because I
[24:56] take her very seriously because
[24:59] everybody who is in that audience trusts
[25:00] her with their entire heart and life and
[25:02] so for her to trust me with her people
[25:04] is a huge Act of trust I want to bring
[25:06] them something good you know and
[25:09] something useful to them and so I mean
[25:12] the way that I practice and I don't read
[25:13] off a teleprompter because it I find it
[25:15] distracting so it's a memorized sort of
[25:17] that's a GI speech and that well it's
[25:20] hours a day of of repetition so I was so
[25:23] and the way I do it is by walking so I
[25:25] walk it into me so I spent months
[25:27] literally months walking hours a day
[25:29] talking walking working on this refining
[25:30] it refining it um so that's part of it
[25:33] is are you prepared right are you
[25:34] preparing have you done literally all
[25:36] you can do right right and then the the
[25:38] day of the first speech came and I was
[25:40] backstage and I was shaking in fear Los
[25:42] I had like imagine you know my knees
[25:44] 2,000 people you know and and Miss
[25:48] Winfrey in the front row like
[25:49] introducing you and be like here over to
[25:51] you us like yes trusting you with you
[25:54] know and watching you with her people
[25:56] who believe in her and who trust her and
[25:59] and I was really like my I was shaking
[26:01] and my hands all those things that
[26:03] happen when you're really scared and I
[26:05] was thinking I was like 5 minutes to go
[26:07] on and I was
[26:08] thinking there are times in your life
[26:11] where the most gracious and Humane gift
[26:14] that you can offer to people is to show
[26:17] them your
[26:19] vulnerability and to let them see that
[26:22] you two are fragile and human and
[26:24] insecure this is not one of those times
[26:27] like that is truly what I
[26:29] thought I TR I was like not today I
[26:32] thought you about to be
[26:33] like no and it was like so clear to me
[26:37] Lewis and it and what I realized was oh
[26:39] my goodness you were not hired today to
[26:42] show them that to be to show like
[26:43] weakness or you were brought here today
[26:46] to model what it looks like to stand in
[26:48] your truth to tell your story in a in a
[26:51] clear voice and to Aspire to claim for
[26:55] yourself some sort of a warrior Heroes
[26:58] Heroes story right like that's what
[27:00] you're that's your job right now do not
[27:02] bring these people who paid a lot of
[27:04] money do not bring them what they
[27:06] already have what they already have is
[27:07] fear insecurity self-hatred un like
[27:10] don't bring them more of don't try to
[27:13] bring them what they don't have and show
[27:14] them what that looks like but show it to
[27:16] them knowing and admitting how scared
[27:19] you are to yourself so how do you do
[27:21] that just by saying I'm scared to no not
[27:25] to me um and I know there are people
[27:27] who' be like you should have just said
[27:28] I'm nervous was like no not today you
[27:30] know like I'll do that in other places
[27:31] but not today and I feel like everyone
[27:33] does that it's kind of like the cop I
[27:35] know that's the new thing I'm so scared
[27:36] right now I'm so nervous and I and I and
[27:38] I was like not no because show them what
[27:41] a steady voice is and show them what it
[27:44] looks like for a woman to stand in her
[27:46] truth and tell her story and Aspire for
[27:50] to create her own Journey right show
[27:51] that model that and but admit to
[27:55] yourself how scared you are because
[27:57] that's integrity for you
[28:00] right so when you say are there is there
[28:02] ever a time to say I'm really good at
[28:05] this I'm great at this I'm perfect for
[28:06] this what I thought was I've prepared
[28:09] for this as much as I can 20 years of
[28:11] work to get 20 years of work to get here
[28:13] Oprah trusted me with this she's not an
[28:14] idiot she thinks I can do this this is
[28:17] your job and you're actually capable of
[28:18] doing this job and it's okay that you're
[28:21] afraid and no you do not go out there
[28:23] and show that and and it was really
[28:26] galvanizing you know it was just like
[28:28] like go do your job you know but do your
[28:31] job without fronting that you're the
[28:34] greatest you know like what doesn't ever
[28:37] humility yeah the humility was my
[28:39] shaking knees were my humility and my
[28:41] acknowledgement of that that's all right
[28:43] it's okay of course you're scared you'd
[28:45] be you'd be a psychopath if this wasn't
[28:47] scary yeah you know but go do your job
[28:50] go do your job you can do it and you can
[28:52] be scared you know what I feel like
[28:54] doesn't work is and it doesn't work for
[28:56] me and some for some people maybe it
[28:58] does is this kind of like pumping in
[29:00] getting yourself up for something by
[29:01] pumping your arms in the there and being
[29:03] like I'm the greatest and the reason it
[29:05] doesn't work for me is because there's
[29:06] this very reasonable Sayan part of my
[29:09] mind that's like well probably not like
[29:12] there's all sorts of evidence that I
[29:14] might not be you're a human being but
[29:17] guess what Louis I'm not the worst
[29:19] either and there's a huge amount of real
[29:21] estate between the worst and the
[29:23] greatest and I'm somewhere in there and
[29:26] I'll take my place in there where I am
[29:29] you know and I'm just happy to be in the
[29:30] game yeah hear you it's interesting I do
[29:33] um you know some speaking every now and
[29:34] then not at 20,000 with Oprah right now
[29:37] but you will yeah yeah but I do a lot of
[29:39] it my own way yeah and um I remember
[29:41] about a year and a half ago just it
[29:44] started to pick up more and I was
[29:45] working with a coach on just my business
[29:47] stuff and I called him like 15 minutes
[29:49] before I was like I'm just a little
[29:50] nervous right now I'm like I'm just I
[29:52] want to do a really great job you know
[29:54] yeah and he's like it's all good but the
[29:56] thing is to focus on you shouldn't be
[29:59] nervous if you're focusing on them when
[30:00] you focus on yourself right then yeah
[30:02] you're going to be nervous on how you
[30:03] look what if I mess up what if I slip
[30:05] What If I Stumble what if I look bad
[30:07] it's all concerned about how you look
[30:09] how you show up instead he's like you
[30:11] know the easiest way to shift out of
[30:12] that is to focus on service and being a
[30:14] service you're not going to look perfect
[30:16] right and people are going to accept you
[30:18] for who you are when you're authentic
[30:19] and real and right and not looking so
[30:22] polish is going to look you know how do
[30:24] you yeah I mean that's the thing that I
[30:26] felt was like you were here to show them
[30:28] go do your job and help you know um
[30:31] serve that's it it so when we come from
[30:33] that place it may not look perfect but
[30:36] it's going to be perfect in that moment
[30:38] there's this poet the poet Mark nepo I
[30:40] was recently having a conversation with
[30:41] him he said something so wonderful he
[30:42] said we live in a culture where
[30:44] everybody's trying to figure out how to
[30:45] get more attention like how do I get
[30:47] more a bigger platform how do I get more
[30:49] likes how do I get more of an audience
[30:51] how do I get more sales how do I get
[30:52] more attention and he said that's not
[30:55] that that's an insignificant question
[30:57] but there's another question which is
[31:00] while you're spending all your energy
[31:01] focused on getting attention what are
[31:03] you giving your attention to you know
[31:06] that's the sole question like what is so
[31:09] worthy to you that you will actually
[31:11] devote your attention to giving rather
[31:13] than getting you know so if you're
[31:15] giving your attention to your audience
[31:18] it's a lot more Beautiful Exchange than
[31:21] you're like AI can I get you guys to
[31:22] look at me right right yes versus what
[31:25] can I what can I get my my friend Glenn
[31:27] and Doyle Melton
[31:28] F sheing you know she said constantly
[31:31] people are coming up to her and saying
[31:33] how can I get a bigger platform on my
[31:34] page how can I get a bigger platform and
[31:36] she says by serving the platform you
[31:40] already have because if all you're
[31:42] thinking about with your platform is how
[31:44] can I get more numbers you're not even
[31:46] paying attention to the people who are
[31:47] already giving you their energy serve
[31:50] them and the rest of it will take care
[31:51] of itself they'll share it they'll talk
[31:53] about you share or they won't and you'll
[31:55] still be in service which is really what
[31:58] is for you know so it's about that
[31:59] giving of attention rather than try to
[32:01] get it what are you focusing your
[32:02] attention on right now
[32:05] um I have a friend who's very ill and um
[32:08] so that is everything right now um there
[32:11] isn't really a lot left for anything
[32:13] else and it's very clarifying in a way
[32:16] um Rob said I called him on the day that
[32:19] I found out and he was like it's amazing
[32:21] how everybody's always looking for their
[32:22] purpose and meaning and then something
[32:25] like this happens and suddenly it's so
[32:28] obvious
[32:28] yes like this is what you're here for
[32:31] now is is to serve this person you know
[32:34] um so honestly like don't really care
[32:38] about anything else right now um I mean
[32:40] I'm sort of whatever energy is left over
[32:42] I'm sort of giving out sure to the world
[32:45] as I can but that's everything right now
[32:48] okay yeah awesome
[32:51] um what I'm interested in is you've
[32:54] given a I want to talking about fear in
[32:56] a second so remind me if I forget if I
[32:58] remember but um you talked about this
[33:02] one of your speeches and how you it
[33:04] might have been on Oprah or Ted Talk I
[33:05] think how you achieved like this this
[33:07] big Monumental thing this book eay love
[33:10] eay what
[33:14] now who now
[33:17] exactly you achieved this big Monumental
[33:20] thing right and and then you talked
[33:23] about how you're like okay my greatest
[33:25] work is probably behind me I think I
[33:27] remember you mentioning saying that yeah
[33:28] certainly my most successful work most
[33:30] most well-known maybe it's not your
[33:32] greatest because you're going to create
[33:33] great work and it may be greater but the
[33:35] world will look back and be like she did
[33:37] that thing yes my the first line of my
[33:39] obituary has been written right exactly
[33:41] yeah so how do when people you know
[33:43] there's these big celebrities or people
[33:44] that achieve like overnight success with
[33:47] content or books or whatever it may be
[33:49] right athletes superstars who win
[33:51] championships early on right what advice
[33:54] do you give to people who make it big at
[33:56] a certain point and realize that wow
[33:57] maybe I'll never win the championship of
[34:00] whatever I'm doing again or achieve that
[34:02] achievement again right Oscar whatever
[34:03] it may be right how do people move
[34:05] forward after that cuz there are a lot
[34:07] of high Achievers on here as well as
[34:09] people that are trying to figure out how
[34:10] to get you know turn their passion into
[34:12] their profit and make it a reality yeah
[34:14] but I think it's equally as important to
[34:16] figure that out so for me it's a
[34:18] mathematical equation which is weird
[34:20] because I don't understand math but I do
[34:24] have an I do understand oh my God but
[34:27] you know what this is is the only way
[34:29] that I could see this that made sense so
[34:33] you know what absolute value is absolute
[34:35] value numbers you remember this at all
[34:36] okay so you're talking to a guy who
[34:38] barely passed look I barely did either
[34:40] but I actually like so an absolute value
[34:43] I can't believe I'm about to try to
[34:45] explain a math okay so there's zero
[34:47] right Zero's in the middle and then
[34:48] there's positive numbers and negative
[34:49] numbers right so there's positive 10 and
[34:51] there's negative 10 okay right so one of
[34:53] them is worth positive 10 points the
[34:55] other one is worth minus 10 points but
[34:57] the distance that they those two numbers
[34:59] are from zero is the same well 10 and 10
[35:02] 10 and 10 gotta if you've measured
[35:03] inches they're each 10 inches away from
[35:05] Center yep right so that's an absolute
[35:07] value so they have the same absolute
[35:09] value as which is how far they are from
[35:11] zero right I can't believe I'm
[35:12] explaining math makes sense to me Squad
[35:15] goals um okay uh so what that means in
[35:20] our personal lives and I think in our
[35:21] professional lives and artistic lives
[35:23] and everything is that zero is where you
[35:27] are doing it's what I call home and my
[35:31] definition of home is the place where I
[35:34] am doing the work I love for the right
[35:37] reasons um beh and that's integrity
[35:41] that's ethics that's the devotion that I
[35:43] bring to my creativity that's treating
[35:46] the people around me correctly that's
[35:48] just my ethical home is at zero and sort
[35:51] of and my creative home is at zero
[35:52] writing is my home um it's where when
[35:55] I'm at work that is when I'm writing a
[35:57] book is when I feel my most authentic
[35:59] it's when I'm the least full of I'm
[36:01] alone in a room and it's just me and
[36:03] this thing that I've always loved and
[36:04] I'm giving it my it's what I'm giving my
[36:06] attention to right I'm not thinking
[36:08] about critics I'm not thinking about
[36:09] Book Sales I'm not I'm just doing me
[36:12] this idea alone that's my home right so
[36:15] failure great failure let's say isga 10
[36:19] from zero right when you fail and you're
[36:22] shamed and you're cast off into the
[36:24] darkness of you know public
[36:29] and bankruptcy divorce you know uh
[36:34] addiction exposure like just any is
[36:37] we're going to put that at negative 10
[36:40] um we don't want that we all agree
[36:41] that's we try to avoid that that that
[36:43] has we can't always avoid it right if
[36:45] you're in life these things are going to
[36:46] happen right success is positive 10
[36:49] right we all want that we all want to go
[36:50] over there like bright lights and and
[36:53] and acclaim and praise and money and
[36:56] women and fast cars and and like
[36:59] attention and trophies that's all at
[37:01] positive 10 right but if you look at it
[37:05] and if you look at it just from a
[37:06] numerical value obviously positive 10 is
[37:08] a lot better than negative 10 yeah if
[37:10] you look at it from an absolute value
[37:13] they're exactly the same distance from
[37:15] zero and where I want to be is at zero
[37:19] because zero is my stable ground where I
[37:22] can do my work from a place of integrity
[37:26] and ethics and devotion and and
[37:28] curiosity and interest where I'm
[37:30] following my path right so success can
[37:34] seem so appealing but if you're not
[37:37] aware of what your zero is where your
[37:40] like where your steadiness is it can
[37:42] throw you just as far away from yourself
[37:44] as failure yeah and so great success and
[37:47] great failure are both on an absolute
[37:49] value scale equally
[37:52] dangerous right and this we know this
[37:54] because look at the cautionary tales of
[37:56] everybody we know who gets out into
[37:58] great success and they might as well
[37:59] have been flung instantly to1 because
[38:02] they're so far from their Center and so
[38:05] the work that you have to do so what
[38:06] happened to me after he pray love is I
[38:07] found myself at positive 10 positive 100
[38:10] probably then yeah it was pretty crazy
[38:13] and so what I had to do was the same
[38:16] thing exactly the same psychological and
[38:19] spiritual work that I used to have to do
[38:21] whenever I got rejected in the seven
[38:23] years before I got published and these
[38:25] rejection letters that would throw me in
[38:26] a negative 10 right no one's ever heard
[38:28] of me nobody cares about me I've been
[38:30] trying for seven years to get this
[38:31] published I just got rejected again I'm
[38:33] never going to be anywhere I'm going to
[38:34] be a diner waitress forever that's Nega
[38:35] 10 and the work that I have to do back
[38:38] then is the same work I had to do at
[38:40] positive 10 which is come back home to
[38:42] zero what does that look like
[38:45] conversation where's your home Liz and
[38:48] the answer is get back to work writing
[38:50] get back to work get back to work at the
[38:52] thing that you do that makes that you
[38:55] care about more than you care about
[38:56] yourself in a way than you're more than
[38:57] you care about but your ego your
[38:59] successes and so after Eat Pray Love the
[39:01] only way I could break the spell of
[39:02] positive 10 was to go back in my room
[39:05] alone and write another book um knowing
[39:09] that it would never be and mean nothing
[39:10] I'm ever it's not possible l i the kind
[39:12] of good thing about Eat Pray Love Too is
[39:13] such a tsunami that it was such a Black
[39:16] Swan that it's like you don't even have
[39:18] to try to do that again I didn't try to
[39:21] do it the first time right I I've
[39:23] written every single you didn't think
[39:24] about that you didn't say I want this to
[39:26] be a big success and be a big like
[39:28] everything I do to be I mean you want
[39:30] people to read sure of course I mean if
[39:31] I have a choice between positive 10 and
[39:33] negative 10 I'll go with positive 10 but
[39:34] I'm not in control of the outcome I'm
[39:36] only in control of my state the work my
[39:40] work and my process and my ethics right
[39:43] my integrity and my ethics and when
[39:45] you're there as I said in that Ted Talk
[39:48] the Hurricanes of outcome can come and
[39:50] go failures the hurricane of failure can
[39:53] come the hurricane of success can come
[39:54] you just keep coming back home to what
[39:57] you're to be doing with the spirit that
[39:59] you're meant to be doing it and you'll
[40:00] be fine you'll be fine um and that's why
[40:03] I'm not doing cocaine off strippers
[40:07] boobs I don't even know if that's like
[40:09] what I would trying to think about the
[40:10] female equivalent that would be but
[40:12] that's why I'm all right you know what I
[40:14] mean that's why I have my old friends
[40:16] that's why Magic Mike's chest
[40:18] EXA that's why I don't have two albino
[40:21] tigers like my right like that's why I'm
[40:22] all right um just have the one
[40:28] many times you know I mean that's it's
[40:30] like come back just are you home are you
[40:32] home at zero at equilibrium are you
[40:34] doing the right work from the right
[40:36] place with Have You released the outcome
[40:38] are you serving rather than are you
[40:39] trying to give attention rather than
[40:40] getting it then you're all right did you
[40:42] feel like you were ready for what came
[40:44] after the book do you feel like the
[40:46] attention I mean must have been so much
[40:48] attention and everyone opportunity
[40:50] opportunity like press yeah
[40:52] Ridiculousness right I was as ready as I
[40:55] could be and the really good news was
[40:57] when it happened which was fourth book
[41:00] not first right um in my good marriage
[41:03] not my unstable chaotic
[41:05] marriage 34 not 22 you know um after
[41:11] years of therapy not before after
[41:14] spiritual journey to India not before in
[41:15] a way the writing of e pre love and the
[41:17] living of e pre love prepared me for the
[41:20] what happened with eay love interes um
[41:21] you know so that what happened after it
[41:24] was so interesting I've said I've tried
[41:26] to explain this before but I feel like
[41:27] people say to me God it must been so
[41:30] crazy for you what happened after he PR
[41:32] 11 and I always want to say my life was
[41:35] crazy when I was in my 20s you just
[41:38] didn't know me then I made it crazy
[41:41] myself because I was doing all sorts of
[41:43] crazy things right emotionally Mally
[41:45] emotionally mentally like codo
[41:48] relationship like all kinds of just
[41:49] craziness and immaturity really you know
[41:52] and you might have looked at me then and
[41:54] I might have looked like somebody who
[41:56] had it together or had a normal life but
[41:59] I was actually just a tornado right by
[42:01] the time me PR love came out there was a
[42:03] tornado going on around me because of
[42:05] the reaction to that book but I was not
[42:07] the tornado you were more grounded I was
[42:09] all right you know and it was and it
[42:10] also I mean there were things to adjust
[42:12] to there were parts of it that were
[42:13] times where I you know said yes to too
[42:16] many things and had to learn like okay
[42:18] don't do that again right right this
[42:20] place that you're in is not good being
[42:21] this stressed this tired and feeling
[42:23] like you're being eaten by by everybody
[42:25] like that's no good um but
[42:28] yeah you know I I was all right and I
[42:31] had good people around me and um I was
[42:33] living in a tiny little town in New
[42:35] Jersey which was a very safe place to be
[42:37] people used to come there was this
[42:38] period at like peaky Pray Love where
[42:40] people knew I lived in that town and
[42:41] they would come to the diner and ask the
[42:43] diner waitresses does where's Liz
[42:45] Gilbert's house and the diner waitresses
[42:46] would point across the bridge to
[42:48] Pennsylvania and be like okay so you go
[42:49] over that bridge and you go like 20
[42:51] miles over those mountains and they
[42:53] would just send them out of town on my
[42:54] behalf wow um cuz it was such a loyal
[42:58] Community to me was Was it crazy though
[43:00] I mean it was just for a little while
[43:01] but it's not like Kardashian
[43:03] level that's crazy but um and it was
[43:07] also you know the there's also something
[43:11] that would happen that people think is
[43:12] crazy but I didn't experience this crazy
[43:14] where people would come up to me on the
[43:16] street and say this must sound insane to
[43:18] you but I feel like I know you and I
[43:21] would say that doesn't sound insane to
[43:22] me because I wrote two Memoirs in a row
[43:25] and told you literally everything about
[43:29] like the reason this feels weird is that
[43:32] I don't know
[43:34] you so that's the imbalance yeah would
[43:37] just say I don't know you so why don't
[43:39] we just go right to that why don't you
[43:41] tell me who you are and where you're
[43:42] from and what your life is because you
[43:44] already know you actually really do
[43:45] already know everything about me you
[43:47] know and I didn't think they were crazy
[43:49] to feel that way it's not their fault
[43:50] that I wrote two Memoirs in a row I'm
[43:52] the one who put it out there can't I
[43:54] can't you can't do that and then be like
[43:55] I don't want attention right yeah
[43:58] it's like you know I reveal some of my
[43:59] biggest secrets on my podcast and people
[44:01] listen every week that's when they meet
[44:03] me they say you know I feel like I know
[44:05] this and this this all these things
[44:06] about you and I appreciate you opening
[44:08] up yeah it's kind of like a living
[44:09] Memoir I guess in the podcast so and
[44:12] that's all right you did that yeah with
[44:14] your own valtion and your own agency
[44:15] nobody came and stole your journals and
[44:17] published them exactly you know um you
[44:19] know I decided to put that out there you
[44:21] decided to put that out there and um and
[44:23] I get it and there's people who I feel
[44:25] like I know um I've had that experience
[44:27] where I meet somebody opra right um yeah
[44:29] we all feel like we know Oprah right
[44:31] what is it about her that so many people
[44:33] that like gives you this energy thought
[44:36] about her why are so many people
[44:37] attracted to her why is she so different
[44:39] than everyone else she's better than
[44:41] everyone else not being competitive here
[44:44] no I mean she's the most impressive
[44:47] human being I've ever met um you know
[44:49] and I what is it
[44:53] she's she
[44:55] has managed I said this
[44:58] to her once I said you never let your
[45:01] greatness get in the way of your
[45:02] goodness um so what it starts with with
[45:05] her is an essential goodness and she has
[45:09] 360 Dee empathetic view of every room
[45:12] that she's in she's aware of everyone in
[45:16] that room and their state and um there's
[45:19] a story I've told before but I find it
[45:20] so remarkable when we did that tour
[45:23] there was a young girl who came with her
[45:26] parents and she was there as a guest of
[45:28] the makea Wish Foundation teenage girl
[45:31] so she was there with her mom and her
[45:33] dad her little sister was probably about
[45:35] nine and this girl was about 15 and I
[45:39] don't know what her condition was but
[45:41] Louis she was there with the makewi
[45:42] foundation right said something she's
[45:44] very ill you know like obviously
[45:45] something's not right not good with this
[45:47] she's a young person who's either very
[45:50] sick or dying right and and she her wish
[45:53] had been to come and meet Oprah Winfrey
[45:56] to come to this event so Oprah went on
[45:58] stage at one point and just said In This
[46:00] Very poised and beautiful way she took a
[46:03] moment and said that we have a special
[46:04] guest in the audience today and I can't
[46:07] remember her name you know just make up
[46:09] a name she's like you know this is Kelly
[46:11] she's here as a gift of the mega Wish
[46:13] Foundation and and can you stand up and
[46:15] she put the spotlight on her and
[46:17] everyone's like weeping because they
[46:18] don't even know but they know like you
[46:20] know everyone knows what that means and
[46:23] that alone was beautiful generous
[46:26] empathetic Humane that's Oprah right but
[46:28] then she did something after that that I
[46:31] was like oh that's why you're you and
[46:35] nobody else is you she said um we have
[46:38] another very special guest in the
[46:40] audience today and I was so honored to
[46:43] be able to meet this young woman
[46:44] backstage and talk to her and she
[46:46] reminds me of myself at her age she's
[46:50] loves reading and she's passionate about
[46:52] school she loves music and she loves to
[46:54] dance and she is really interested in
[46:56] animals and she just the most vivacious
[46:59] spirited young woman I've ever met and
[47:01] that's Kelly's little sister and she
[47:04] puts the spotlight on the 9-year-old
[47:06] who's the little sister of the girl
[47:09] who's very sick and I was like oh my god
[47:13] of course that kid gets no attention
[47:16] right of of course that kid gets no
[47:18] attention so all the focus is on Kelly
[47:20] Kelly's got the glamour of you know and
[47:23] Kelly's very ill and her probably
[47:25] requires a huge amount of attention
[47:26] because she has a serious disease of
[47:27] some sort but she also has the glamour
[47:31] of suffering around her and this kid has
[47:34] probably just been as much as doesn't
[47:37] mean her parents don't love her they
[47:38] just don't have time and energy they
[47:39] have a very sick daughter and I was like
[47:41] oh my God and that little girl stood up
[47:43] and she put the spotlight on her and she
[47:45] was just beaming like she just like took
[47:47] up the whole Arena she's like hi you
[47:50] know she like and for Oprah to say you
[47:53] remind me of myself oh my gosh you know
[47:55] like you remind me of myself you're just
[47:57] like me you're great like that's why
[48:01] you're opro Winfrey I mean it's good
[48:03] enough that you did the first step but
[48:05] you saw the next thing that nobody else
[48:09] would see and and that's again not about
[48:13] how am I getting attention but who am I
[48:15] giving attention to and I see her do
[48:17] that in every room that she's in you
[48:19] know just pick the person who isn't
[48:22] getting the attention and see them wow
[48:25] you know and make them feel seen and and
[48:27] that's why she's her and nobody else is
[48:30] and because I think after a certain
[48:31] level people stop giving attention and
[48:35] only try to hold on to the attention
[48:37] that they have or get more you know
[48:38] what's interesting as I asked Rob uh we
[48:40] were having breakfast the other day I
[48:42] said what's one question you haven't
[48:43] asked Liz that you've always wanted to
[48:45] ask her which you guys have an
[48:47] incredible relationship I'm sure you
[48:48] guys have told each other everything but
[48:49] I said what's one question that you'd
[48:50] want to ask and his question was how
[48:53] does she go into every room and see
[48:55] people for who they are and give them
[48:56] the most attention okay now I'm going to
[48:59] [Laughter]
[49:00] cry
[49:02] a so um I thought that was
[49:06] interesting I don't because I want to
[49:10] because I want to
[49:13] um
[49:15] and you know you were asking about
[49:17] that's so sweet of him to say that um
[49:19] you were asking him about he's he wants
[49:21] to know how you do it how by wanting to
[49:25] by wanting to um you know you know
[49:28] uh why else would you walk into a room
[49:32] yeah right like what other motive would
[49:35] you possibly
[49:36] have what other reason is there to meet
[49:39] a person than to try to see them you
[49:41] know um I'm interested in us yeah we're
[49:46] really weird we are we're really weird
[49:49] these monkeys these monkeys with these
[49:51] supercomputer brains on this planet
[49:53] spinning 69,000 M hour through space who
[49:56] have a cons of divinity what all of us
[49:59] are that I want to know what that what
[50:03] that is you know and I think actually
[50:05] really one of the if there was a painful
[50:07] thing about e pray love it was that the
[50:09] number of people who were in the room
[50:11] was suddenly so big that I couldn't do
[50:13] that in every room anymore without me
[50:16] being exhausted by it so it's taking too
[50:18] much of your energy I'm not a natural
[50:20] boundary Setter to put it mildly
[50:23] yeah I mean you let me pick you up right
[50:25] way so I first thing I said to you was
[50:28] who's this guy up and the first thing I
[50:30] said to you was use
[50:31] me you were like what do you want me to
[50:33] what do you want me to pitch you know
[50:35] what do you want me to promote yes on
[50:37] this podcast I was like I'm here to
[50:38] serve you and your people use me like I
[50:40] don't so I had for me to have to set
[50:42] boundaries is very painful I'd rather
[50:44] not I mean I really would rather that we
[50:47] were all just Golden Retrievers in a
[50:49] pile you know like so it's not easy for
[50:52] me to um say no to people and it's not
[50:55] easy for me to say I can't give you
[50:57] everything you want I'll certainly try
[50:59] um but I did this thing that was so cool
[51:01] when I was on tour for big magic I often
[51:04] find that I shut down there's a part of
[51:07] me that shuts down on tour because it's
[51:08] so much energy going out yeah and I was
[51:11] going on this four Monon long tour and I
[51:12] thought I don't want to be shut down I
[51:14] don't want to just be in P like
[51:15] autopilot I don't want to have my screen
[51:17] saver on I want to be awake and alert to
[51:21] what Rob always calls the action is here
[51:23] like your life isn't happening sometime
[51:25] in the future it's happening right now
[51:27] in this room with whoever you're with um
[51:29] and so I made this goal that every
[51:31] single person that I met everyone that I
[51:34] met on my tour I was going to ask them
[51:37] what are you most excited about in your
[51:38] life right now with this idea that
[51:40] amazing that this is the question I
[51:42] asked anyone knew that I mean really I
[51:44] asked them this question it's such a
[51:45] good question because I feel like people
[51:47] always ask the wrong question they ask
[51:48] where are you from what do you do
[51:50] there's no way to learn less about some
[51:52] than to ask people those two questions
[51:54] it's instant learning nothing about
[51:56] somebody I'll either say what are you
[51:58] most grateful for in your life recently
[51:59] uhhuh or what are you most excited about
[52:01] in your life right now that is so cool
[52:03] and I feel like that brings the most joy
[52:04] out of people well you get right to it
[52:07] the thing they're excited about or what
[52:08] do you yeah and right to the person
[52:10] that's crazy you said that that's so
[52:11] funny I didn't know you asked those
[52:12] questions that's funny cuz that's about
[52:14] being interested in you know what
[52:16] they're all about too and the answers
[52:17] are amazing aren't they unbelievable um
[52:20] like that my favorite one on my tour was
[52:22] this young woman doing my makeup before
[52:23] a morning TV show and it's exactly the
[52:25] kind of interaction that is normally not
[52:27] not an interaction um which is we we're
[52:29] so in David White the poet says the most
[52:32] interesting thing to him about human
[52:33] beings is that we're the only species on
[52:35] the planet who can choose not to show up
[52:37] um like can choose to not even just be
[52:40] there like all animals are totally where
[52:42] they are at all times like the hawk
[52:44] can't be like I'm I'm just not gonna do
[52:46] I'm G to be a hawk
[52:48] today like a fish can't just be like I
[52:50] have had it up to the teeth with being a
[52:52] fish I'm just not even going to show up
[52:55] like humans can do that though and be
[52:56] like I'm not even going to I just can't
[52:58] you know um and so there's all these
[53:00] human interactions that we have with
[53:02] people where there are two people who
[53:04] are just both not there um you know and
[53:08] and so for me getting my makeup done
[53:10] before morning TV with this young woman
[53:11] who'd been there since 3:00 a.m. at the
[53:13] studio and me on a long tour that's
[53:14] exactly the kind of interaction where
[53:16] two people can be doing this incredibly
[53:17] weirdly intimate thing where she's like
[53:19] a quarter of an inch from my face
[53:20] painting me and not be there and she's
[53:22] not there I'm not there like that is
[53:24] weird on your phone yeah I'm planning
[53:27] what I'm going to be saying and she's
[53:28] thinking about when she's getting off
[53:29] work and here she is like so physically
[53:32] intimate to me and we're both not in the
[53:34] room like that's incredible right so I
[53:36] said what do you can I ask you a
[53:38] question and she's like just sort of
[53:39] dead eyed tired she like I said you know
[53:43] what are you most excited about right
[53:44] now and she went they just found water
[53:47] on Mars like literally like that and
[53:50] she's like this is changing everything
[53:52] about the whole history of human
[53:53] colonialization and migration and my
[53:55] grandchildren are going to live in outer
[53:56] space and this changes everything about
[53:58] climate change and this and she's a
[53:59] total space geek wow and I was like you
[54:02] have no clue we could have sat here for
[54:03] a long time before we got to Mars you
[54:05] know but we just jumped right into this
[54:07] really weird very specific thing and
[54:10] suddenly we were both there like two
[54:13] human beings in a room together life
[54:16] meeting life right and it's a moment you
[54:19] remember I'll never forget her it was
[54:21] awesome and and then I wanted to know
[54:23] everything about her feelings about Mars
[54:26] and why shees and what she's all about
[54:28] and then I used to have a friend who was
[54:31] a wine maker and he used to say you know
[54:32] wine is alive it's a you know it's
[54:34] living cultures in there and when you're
[54:36] drinking wine it's a moment where life
[54:38] is meeting life a living thing is
[54:40] meeting another living thing and he said
[54:42] there's nothing better that you can do
[54:43] with your time in all circumstances than
[54:46] to create scenarios in which life can
[54:48] meet life and that question is a really
[54:51] good way for life to meet life what are
[54:53] you excited about what are you grateful
[54:54] for that's a good one too I think it CU
[54:57] it's the re I I mean I live in gratitude
[54:59] that's my life like the morning moment I
[55:01] wake up to if you ever call me on my
[55:03] cell phone I don't pick up the my voice
[55:05] message says tell me what you're most
[55:06] grateful for first then I'll reply to
[55:08] you to just meeting people I'm
[55:11] constantly evoking it because you know
[55:14] it's hard to be angry and grateful at
[55:15] the same time it's really hard to be
[55:17] frustrated and pissed off at life and
[55:19] it's impossible to be generous oh yeah
[55:22] without being grateful absolutely
[55:23] impossible I've never met a a a generous
[55:27] person who doesn't live in gratitude and
[55:29] I've never met a stingy and ungenerous
[55:31] person who has any gratitude in them at
[55:33] all right impossible it's always what's
[55:35] lacking what's not good enough I don't
[55:36] have enough so how can I possibly share
[55:38] yeah you know interesting interesting
[55:41] who taught you that or did you teach it
[55:43] yourself you know life just life yeah I
[55:46] mean I was really miserable for a long
[55:48] time just like inside like I was so
[55:50] driven and focused to achieve cuz I
[55:52] thought that was going to bring me
[55:53] acceptance yeah and I would achieve
[55:55] everything I ever wanted and feel so
[55:57] lonely and like oh so you get this you
[55:59] win the trophy and then and I was like
[56:00] then you're like what am I suppos to do
[56:02] the most angry nasty person like 10
[56:04] minutes after like every Big dream I
[56:06] ever achieved when I was like my teens
[56:08] and 20s yeah and I was just like why am
[56:10] I so frustrated and angry and defensive
[56:12] and guarded by like achieving everything
[56:14] I ever wanted yeah and then I started to
[56:17] do the inner work and realized that's
[56:18] why the mask of masculinity I'm diving
[56:20] into this topic I love that you're doing
[56:22] this to talk about over the last 3 four
[56:24] years three four years I've really been
[56:26] like shifting and realize wow like I've
[56:28] been doing it to gain acceptance as
[56:30] opposed to to create what I love and
[56:32] Inspire and to serve wow so now
[56:34] everything's shifted to service it's
[56:36] what it's my motivation behind giving
[56:38] and creating and yes I want to be a New
[56:40] York time bestseller and Achieve these
[56:42] things go and you will who doesn't
[56:45] exactly but I want to Ser but in yeah
[56:47] and and in that service process after
[56:49] and during exactly so in the process
[56:52] like life is just transformed that's
[56:54] amazing yeah just being aware of it and
[56:56] then taking cuz I listened to your
[56:57] interview with Rob and I know you talked
[56:59] about that whole Evolution um that's so
[57:03] cool so it's been fun I mean I'm still
[57:05] doing a lot of the work I'm not perfect
[57:06] by any means but what you're not done
[57:09] you're still alive and you're not done
[57:10] still alive yeah exactly life will make
[57:13] sure that you're not done exactly but
[57:15] gratitude for me it's like uh you know
[57:17] it's in the morning I write it down you
[57:19] know during the day I just talk about it
[57:21] I ask people I evoke it as much as I can
[57:23] yeah and then uh at night I'll tell my
[57:25] girlfriend you know I'll ask her what
[57:26] are three things you're most grateful
[57:27] for and I'll share what I'm grateful for
[57:29] from just the day and I feel like it's
[57:31] again it's really hard it's really hard
[57:33] to be angry or resentful or pissed off
[57:36] of like a hater or whatever like if you
[57:39] didn't achieve what you wanted to to dat
[57:40] it's like still a lot to be grateful for
[57:43] so much good that's happening to us you
[57:45] know that practice of three things a day
[57:48] that you're grateful for has been shown
[57:50] to be I'm know you know this but it's
[57:51] shown to be one of the very few
[57:54] immediately concrete ways that you can
[57:55] totally change your life
[57:57] into a happier life it's like just and
[57:59] it can't be abstract like yeah I'm just
[58:03] going to try to have an attitude or
[58:04] gratitude it's like write that down
[58:07] write it down tell people and evoke it
[58:09] out of people it down cuz it makes you
[58:12] have to find it see it and realize it
[58:14] yeah be aware of it yeah um what's
[58:16] missing in your life right
[58:18] now wow what's
[58:23] missing that's very hard to even think
[58:26] of um is there anything missing yeah I
[58:28] mean there's nothing missing in my life
[58:32] there's things missing in who I would
[58:35] like to be who's that you know um I
[58:38] would love to be less judgmental I would
[58:42] love to be more forgiving um those two
[58:45] things go hand in hand um I would love
[58:49] to have no
[58:53] anxiety um so what's sometimes missing
[58:56] is peace and trust but less and less
[59:00] like less and less I have like I'm at
[59:02] the most peaceful and trusting place in
[59:04] my life now that I've ever been yeah um
[59:06] and I see where we can just keep going
[59:08] with that you know um what do you think
[59:11] is going to take for you to achieve that
[59:14] or or or be that more money isn't that
[59:17] hilarious I'm just joking but like do
[59:19] you see how dumb that sounds it sounds
[59:21] stupid like yeah I mean if I want to be
[59:23] a more forgiving person I'm just going
[59:25] to have to have a bigger income you know
[59:27] and I'm going to have to have a much
[59:28] much better house and then I think and
[59:30] then I think I won't judge others as
[59:32] much I think it'll make me Kinder and
[59:35] and softer and less you know less less
[59:37] self what what it's going to take I'll
[59:39] tell you you know I think what it's
[59:40] going to take is is paying attention you
[59:44] know keeping that at the you know bne
[59:47] Brown always just keep your shadow in
[59:48] front of you where you can see it um
[59:51] because you want to you know keep an eye
[59:53] on it if you if you if it's behind you
[59:55] it's going to be doing all kinds of of
[59:56] crazy stuff to you that you can't see um
[59:58] so I know that this is my shadow work um
[1:00:02] and and I think forgiveness especially
[1:00:04] um is my shadow work I can't I and the
[1:00:08] way that I want to work on that I have a
[1:00:11] lot of to come at it from many angles
[1:00:13] but one is to spend as much time around
[1:00:14] people who are really good at it I mean
[1:00:16] the thing about the thing I feel about
[1:00:18] our families and where we come from is
[1:00:22] that I realized this the other day
[1:00:24] because somebody said to me well you're
[1:00:25] really lucky because you grew up in a
[1:00:26] family where creativity was encouraged
[1:00:28] you know so lucky you you get to go be a
[1:00:29] writer cuz your family didn't squash
[1:00:31] your creativity and I thought you are
[1:00:34] absolutely correct about that you know
[1:00:36] and if I'm going to be creating a
[1:00:37] gratitude list for things that I'm
[1:00:38] grateful for one of the things I'm
[1:00:39] grateful for is that my parents did not
[1:00:40] squash my creativity and that was that's
[1:00:42] amazing because a lot of families do and
[1:00:44] I am and they my parents were good at
[1:00:46] that and they got that and there's a lot
[1:00:48] of other stuff that they got and they
[1:00:49] were good at too however they didn't get
[1:00:52] everything and there was a lot of stuff
[1:00:54] they were not good at at all they
[1:00:55] weren't perfect they were believe it or
[1:00:57] not and then you know they were also
[1:00:59] raised by people who didn't get
[1:01:01] everything and who didn't have all the
[1:01:03] pieces of the puzzle and who had serious
[1:01:06] gaps right
[1:01:08] and so my parents like all of our
[1:01:12] parents gave me literally everything
[1:01:16] they could yeah based on what they had
[1:01:18] you it is not possible for somebody to
[1:01:21] give you something they do not
[1:01:22] themselves possess it's not possible and
[1:01:25] so there were certain lessons growing up
[1:01:27] that I never saw modeled for me only
[1:01:30] because they didn't know how to do it
[1:01:32] right you know um if they knew they
[1:01:34] would have shown me the way they showed
[1:01:35] me how to be creative the way they
[1:01:36] showed me how to be self assured like
[1:01:38] there were certain things that they were
[1:01:39] really good at showing me what they
[1:01:41] weren't able to show me because no one
[1:01:43] showed them was how to be forgiving how
[1:01:47] to be at a certain level generous um
[1:01:50] because there was like a lot of scarcity
[1:01:51] anxiety in my family um they weren't
[1:01:54] able to show me how to be honest in
[1:01:57] certain circumstances that require a
[1:01:59] very brave honesty because there was a
[1:02:00] lot of conflict aversion and so there
[1:02:02] were a lot of things that were never
[1:02:03] discussed and said because they didn't
[1:02:04] know how um none of this is about
[1:02:09] blaming them you can't blame people for
[1:02:11] not giving you what they didn't have you
[1:02:13] know and what I wanted to say to that
[1:02:16] and I was sort of able to say to I was
[1:02:17] trying to explain this this woman who
[1:02:18] said you're so lucky that you were given
[1:02:21] this and I'm like
[1:02:22] yes
[1:02:24] but I didn't get like these 10 other
[1:02:27] things and what I've done as an adult is
[1:02:30] to go become a student of those things I
[1:02:32] didn't get because all over the world
[1:02:34] are people who have to offer what my
[1:02:37] parents didn't have and I've become I go
[1:02:39] sit at their feet and I say show me
[1:02:43] Teach Me model for me how to do this
[1:02:46] thing that was not modeled for me when I
[1:02:48] was a child because now I'm a grown ass
[1:02:50] adult I can go look for that thing I'm
[1:02:52] not going to sit around at my age and be
[1:02:54] like nobody ever told me how to be
[1:02:57] honest so when I'm going to go find the
[1:03:00] most honest people I know and say walk
[1:03:02] me through how you just did that
[1:03:04] interaction where you were so kind but
[1:03:07] also so straight with somebody about
[1:03:09] your truth and your feeling because I've
[1:03:11] never been able to do that so can you
[1:03:13] just take me back and just literally
[1:03:15] stepbystep like Elementary addition show
[1:03:19] me what that looks like when you do that
[1:03:20] you know and show me how you just
[1:03:23] forgave that person who I watched
[1:03:26] you talk me through it like it's tough
[1:03:30] it is tough but there are people who
[1:03:32] know things that I don't know and you
[1:03:35] can go be near them and you can ask them
[1:03:38] questions and you can learn and what I
[1:03:41] wanted to say to this woman who was like
[1:03:43] I my family didn't teach me how to be
[1:03:45] creative so I can't be creative was like
[1:03:47] go learn right or buy a book go
[1:03:52] to the bookstore there's a whole thing
[1:03:56] Rob always says this whatever your
[1:03:58] ailment or missing pieces are there are
[1:04:01] professionals who can help you with it
[1:04:04] like go get a creativity coach take an
[1:04:07] art class or just sit there for the rest
[1:04:09] of your life saying nobody ever let me
[1:04:12] be creative when I was a kid so hands up
[1:04:14] in the air nothing I can do about it go
[1:04:16] be a student yeah you know go be a
[1:04:19] student so these pieces that I'm missing
[1:04:21] in me my life's goals are to be a
[1:04:23] student you know like I tookan Le an
[1:04:26] 12we forgiveness class wow you know like
[1:04:29] I listened six times to Rob's podcast
[1:04:32] his four podcast in a row on forgiveness
[1:04:34] I was like I did the homework it's like
[1:04:37] I will show up and try to fill these
[1:04:39] gaps rather than being like damn it mom
[1:04:43] why didn't you give me everything I
[1:04:44] needed right you know why because no one
[1:04:47] gave her everything she needed you know
[1:04:49] but one thing my parents did teach me
[1:04:51] was how to
[1:04:52] learn so it's a great skill go learn
[1:04:56] yeah it's a great skill you know go go
[1:04:59] learn yeah you know um I didn't get all
[1:05:02] I'm assuming you got everything you
[1:05:03] needed from your family of origin
[1:05:07] everything they just filled in the whole
[1:05:10] story the thing they did give me which
[1:05:12] is probably similar to your story is
[1:05:13] they gave me belief they told me that
[1:05:16] anything I wanted to do is possible and
[1:05:18] my father and my mom were just like
[1:05:19] whatever your dream is go for it like we
[1:05:21] fully support you no matter how crazy it
[1:05:23] is that's great no matter how you know
[1:05:25] whatever is you know they also got
[1:05:28] divorced and were a lot of emotional
[1:05:30] conversations constantly growing up my
[1:05:32] brother was in prison for four years
[1:05:33] when I was eight years old so I didn't
[1:05:35] have any friends during that time
[1:05:36] because no other parents would let their
[1:05:38] kids hang out with me um and you know I
[1:05:41] was sexually abused I was raped when I
[1:05:43] was five by a man that I didn't know so
[1:05:44] there was a lot of things that you know
[1:05:47] shaped my mindset early on but my father
[1:05:49] and mom always said they always told me
[1:05:51] how much they love me and said you can
[1:05:53] do anything you want and that's a pretty
[1:05:55] good fundamental and it's still that
[1:05:56] belief in me yeah and out of all the
[1:05:58] kids in my high school and college I
[1:06:00] went to three different colleges there's
[1:06:02] so many kids that I know who were afraid
[1:06:05] of me when I went after my dream after
[1:06:06] college that didn't want to talk to me
[1:06:08] anymore and I was like why am I being
[1:06:10] like why do no one want to talk to me or
[1:06:12] hang out with me when I'm going after
[1:06:13] what I want and I realized because a lot
[1:06:16] of them didn't have that Foundation that
[1:06:18] they were able to go after what they
[1:06:20] wanted so it felt really foreign and
[1:06:22] they were just like yeah they were kind
[1:06:23] of trying to take me down or bring me
[1:06:25] back to where they are and just the
[1:06:26] comfort zone we call that tribal shaming
[1:06:29] right and I was just like powerful thing
[1:06:30] so I had to lose all these friends but I
[1:06:32] was like I'm not going to sacrifice my
[1:06:34] dream and learn what my gifts are yeah
[1:06:36] yeah to please 20 people or whatever it
[1:06:39] is you know that were my closest friends
[1:06:41] yeah and a lot of them have come back
[1:06:43] around years later and actually help ask
[1:06:45] for coaching and I've helped them with
[1:06:46] businesses and come back together but I
[1:06:49] had to have like the courage to leave
[1:06:51] and be alone again essentially wow and
[1:06:53] just believe like hey this is what my
[1:06:55] calling is do you think your being alone
[1:06:57] as a child when your brother was in
[1:06:59] prison you didn't have any friends sort
[1:07:00] of prepared you for that sense of is I
[1:07:03] mean all through elementary school
[1:07:04] middle school high school I was like
[1:07:07] very like a lot of inner turmoil just
[1:07:10] felt like alone all the time M yeah and
[1:07:12] it's what made me early on it was what
[1:07:14] made me so driven to prove people wrong
[1:07:16] like yeah I was picked last on sports
[1:07:18] teams that's hilarious
[1:07:21] Elementary you guys I'm sitting across
[1:07:23] room
[1:07:23] LS and yeah I'm just saying who did you
[1:07:27] go to school with like Goliath and Hulk
[1:07:29] who were like the first the first ones
[1:07:31] picked on every on every team I was like
[1:07:33] theall I was like the tall skinny like
[1:07:35] goofy looking kid right who was always
[1:07:37] like in the special needs classes
[1:07:38] because I didn't do well in school the
[1:07:40] reason but now you understand absolute
[1:07:41] value exactly the reason I created this
[1:07:44] reason I created School of greatness was
[1:07:46] because I didn't do well in school but
[1:07:49] in sports I loved learning and I loved
[1:07:51] like the principles of getting to the
[1:07:53] achieving your dreams so I was like what
[1:07:55] if we could create a different type of
[1:07:56] school that's so cool I love it the
[1:07:58] principles that actually help us feel
[1:08:00] the most fulfilled the most loved most
[1:08:01] worthy the most accepted School of
[1:08:04] greatness so um any we're getting off
[1:08:07] track here no we're on track we've never
[1:08:09] been more on track there is no off track
[1:08:11] I want I want to be respectful because
[1:08:13] you said about an hour we're about an
[1:08:14] hour five in all right you want to get
[1:08:16] another one more question in because
[1:08:17] then I got to go over see brother Rob I
[1:08:18] know I know I know so I was just like
[1:08:19] man I could go for another hour but I
[1:08:21] want to make sure can I ask three more
[1:08:23] all right I'll try to ask answer them
[1:08:24] quickly although that is not perfect
[1:08:26] perfect perfect I want to be respectful
[1:08:28] your time this is your last if you're
[1:08:30] good we can we can finish no we'll do it
[1:08:31] we'll do it a friend of mine just I I
[1:08:33] told her I'm going out to California I'm
[1:08:34] doing a speaking event she goes every
[1:08:36] event with you is a speaking event am I
[1:08:37] right am I right um but yes we will I
[1:08:40] will you ask and I'll try to be do
[1:08:42] lightning round perfect perfect cool
[1:08:45] okay if there was a we'll have to come
[1:08:47] you have to come back on then another
[1:08:48] time CU I have many more questions oh
[1:08:50] you're lovely next time I'm out in in LA
[1:08:52] in La perfect my new second home
[1:08:54] apparently there you go
[1:08:57] like the LA now yeah it's good good box
[1:09:00] um if there was a uh a word or a phrase
[1:09:04] that you had to Mike Tyson your face and
[1:09:06] putto on and it would had to be in
[1:09:09] Reverse so that when you walked in the
[1:09:10] mirror it would reflect and you could
[1:09:12] only you could see it essentially what
[1:09:14] would that word or saying be well I
[1:09:16] already mik Tyson it on my well it's not
[1:09:18] mik Tyson it it's the opposite of it I
[1:09:20] did it that's the literally the opposite
[1:09:21] of a Mike Tyson tattoo it's a white ink
[1:09:23] tattoo on my wrist can you read it
[1:09:25] stubborn gladness that's it that's cool
[1:09:27] stubborn gladness it's from a poem by my
[1:09:29] favorite poet Jack Gilbert in a relation
[1:09:32] um where he says we must have the
[1:09:33] stubbornness to accept our gladness in
[1:09:36] the ruthless furnace of the world um and
[1:09:39] I think that's everything it's not
[1:09:41] denying that the world is a furnace it's
[1:09:43] just saying you put your shoulder up
[1:09:45] against it with your optimism that's
[1:09:47] cool you're heliotropic like these Sun
[1:09:50] you turn your face to the light and you
[1:09:52] put that stubborn gladness in that's
[1:09:54] cool I like that I like that I might
[1:09:56] just go do that there you go right on
[1:09:59] the forehead the forehead reverse like
[1:10:01] ambulance you know exactly exactly I
[1:10:04] like that um this is what I call the
[1:10:06] three truths okay question now I didn't
[1:10:09] I didn't uh prep Liz for this so this
[1:10:12] will be off the cuff which I'm sure
[1:10:13] you'll be fine um let's say it's the end
[1:10:16] the last day for you many many years
[1:10:17] from now however much longer right many
[1:10:20] many years you've written many other big
[1:10:22] hits movies books anything you've wanted
[1:10:25] to create you've been able to write the
[1:10:26] story right now and create everything to
[1:10:29] Hamilton exact right right whatever it
[1:10:32] is you want to create you've created it
[1:10:34] called Jefferson uhhuh and um the last
[1:10:38] day it's a you know it's peaceful
[1:10:40] everyone knows it's the last day for you
[1:10:41] and everyone's there everyone who care
[1:10:42] about is there and uh for whatever
[1:10:44] reason everything's been erased big
[1:10:46] magic all the books everything plays
[1:10:49] whatever movies gone MH and uh your
[1:10:52] great great whatever comes up and says
[1:10:56] um here's a pen and a piece of paper Liz
[1:10:59] Can you probably call you Elizabeth they
[1:11:01] call me anti- grandma actually anti
[1:11:03] grandma Yeah I have step kids and their
[1:11:04] grandkids call me anti Grandma there you
[1:11:06] go there you go anti Grandma uh here's a
[1:11:08] pen and a piece of paper and there's
[1:11:10] nothing else to Remember You by because
[1:11:12] it's all been erased um but you can
[1:11:15] write down three truths the three truths
[1:11:17] that you know from everything you've
[1:11:19] learned all your experiences what would
[1:11:21] you would pass on to us to be the
[1:11:23] biggest lessons principles any two lips
[1:11:26] combined make a better
[1:11:28] shade number one there's only three
[1:11:31] wishes the never put water on a grease
[1:11:34] fire
[1:11:37] two and
[1:11:39] [Music]
[1:11:40] um red wine stains on a white couch are
[1:11:43] never coming out everything else can be
[1:11:45] reversed every other mistake you make in
[1:11:47] life can be reversed except that one
[1:11:49] really um uh but in but a more Earnest
[1:11:53] thing is
[1:11:57] um keep your side of the street
[1:12:00] clean
[1:12:03] um don't make yourself smaller to make
[1:12:07] other people feel better about
[1:12:10] themselves
[1:12:13] and avoid romantic
[1:12:17] entanglements when you're too young for
[1:12:19] them um it's the really like I feel like
[1:12:23] the biggest obstacle which of course it
[1:12:25] turn into you know turn into eay love
[1:12:27] but the you certainly the one piece of
[1:12:30] advice and truth that I always give to
[1:12:31] young women especially is do not be too
[1:12:35] hasty to attach your life to somebody
[1:12:38] else's life do not be too hasty to
[1:12:40] attach your life to somebody else's life
[1:12:42] and and focus on creating your own
[1:12:46] journey and your own identity because
[1:12:48] there is a terrible habit that women
[1:12:50] have the minute they are attached to
[1:12:52] somebody else is that they become that
[1:12:54] person's helper
[1:12:56] um and they live in service of that
[1:12:59] person's dream rather than their own and
[1:13:03] so just stay away from it for a while
[1:13:05] just get just back right out of that bar
[1:13:08] just like you know like if I could go
[1:13:10] back in time which I wouldn't do because
[1:13:13] I don't want to undo anything that's
[1:13:15] brought me here hanging out with you in
[1:13:17] this room right now is so good right
[1:13:19] like why would I want to take any piece
[1:13:21] of that out or else none of us are right
[1:13:23] here but in all the parallel universes
[1:13:27] I'm going back you know in
[1:13:29] 1992 on 1 Avenue in ten Street and I'm
[1:13:32] about to walk into this particular bar
[1:13:34] and I'm just picking myself up off that
[1:13:36] sidewalk and I'm putting myself in a
[1:13:38] different
[1:13:39] direction um because I'm not ready to do
[1:13:43] what I'm about to do with the guy that
[1:13:44] I'm about to meet in that bar you know
[1:13:46] um and and I'm just going to go to
[1:13:48] library
[1:13:49] instead go to the library and and learn
[1:13:52] Italian instead I'm just going to go do
[1:13:53] something else instead I'm not getting
[1:13:55] married 24 in my next life you know um
[1:13:58] so that those are those are my three
[1:13:59] Noble Truths but the thing about the
[1:14:00] lipstick is totally true I like
[1:14:04] that um very cool well I've got one
[1:14:07] final question uh and before I I ask it
[1:14:09] I want to make sure everyone goes and
[1:14:10] gets this book it's called Big magic
[1:14:13] creative living beyond fear so make sure
[1:14:15] to check this out we'll have it all
[1:14:16] linked up on the show notes here in just
[1:14:18] a second and make sure to uh follow you
[1:14:21] online where do you like to hang out the
[1:14:22] most on social Facebook Facebook um I'm
[1:14:25] Bert Liz and I'm fa a lot I have a
[1:14:27] beautiful Facebook Community perfect
[1:14:29] yeah so go hang out there tell her what
[1:14:31] you thought about this interview send
[1:14:33] her love over there but also on
[1:14:34] Instagram Twitter everywhere else too
[1:14:37] yeah I'm all over the I'm all over the
[1:14:39] social media I like it I like it um
[1:14:41] before I ask the final question I want
[1:14:42] to acknowledge you for a moment Liz uh I
[1:14:45] acknowledge you for your incredible joy
[1:14:47] for your incredible heart your spirit
[1:14:50] and for your ability to see so many
[1:14:52] people for who they are and what uh
[1:14:55] brings them Joy the world so I
[1:14:56] acknowledge you for consistently showing
[1:14:59] up even after such big wins and serving
[1:15:03] people in such an amazing loving way
[1:15:06] because you could easily write off and
[1:15:09] write people off but you have an
[1:15:11] incredible heart from this last hour
[1:15:13] just connecting with you and uh it's
[1:15:15] just an inspiration to so many so you
[1:15:17] are so lovely now I want you to pick me
[1:15:19] up again yeah I will I will I will that
[1:15:22] is so so sweet okay I know this is
[1:15:25] probably going off script but can I
[1:15:26] acknowledge you for showing people how
[1:15:29] to be a student sure you know like
[1:15:31] starting with your story of being dark
[1:15:32] and angry and disenchant disenchanted
[1:15:36] and obsessed with achievement and never
[1:15:39] satisfied and finding a way to live from
[1:15:41] a place of gratitude and now taking the
[1:15:43] mask of masculinity off which is going
[1:15:45] to be such a community service it's
[1:15:47] going to be such a community service for
[1:15:49] you to do that for so many men and women
[1:15:51] and families so keep doing what you're
[1:15:54] doing thank you I will oh I was going to
[1:15:57] fist bump you but I'm getting a full
[1:15:59] double Bill Clinton
[1:16:01] [Laughter]
[1:16:03] handshake um final question is what's
[1:16:06] your definition of
[1:16:07] greatness
[1:16:10] goodness Liz Gilbert thanks for coming
[1:16:13] on appreciate it thank youate you you
[1:16:16] are the greatest and the
[1:16:20] goodest hey guys Louis how here and
[1:16:22] thanks so much for checking out this
[1:16:23] video and this interview I hope you you
[1:16:25] loved it if you did make sure to leave a
[1:16:27] comment below and share this with your
[1:16:29] friends also I've got a huge
[1:16:31] announcement the summit of greatness is
[1:16:34] coming very soon if you love the school
[1:16:36] of greatness podcast if you love these
[1:16:37] interviews and you want more you want to
[1:16:39] connect with some of these speakers in
[1:16:41] person you want to connect with me and
[1:16:43] other people just like you who watch and
[1:16:45] listen to these interviews then make
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[1:16:49] greatness go to Summit ofg greatness.com
[1:16:52] to learn more you can check out more
[1:16:54] about the video that we have that we
[1:16:55] created for the summit there's a link in
[1:16:57] the description below as well it's
[1:16:59] Summit ofg greatness.com check it out
[1:17:02] right now I hope to see you there and
[1:17:04] again thanks so much for watching this
[1:17:06] video